Wat Dhammakaya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:04 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I see no profit in this thread, or those like it. Views are too polarised to have any meaningful dialogue, so it's best not to continue it.

I do feel that much unwholesomeness has occurred here. However, I think the OP and some other posters wants to talk about something they find disturbing about Wat Dk. For me, whether some people think they can buy a hammer from Dk for banging through (not just knocking on) heaven's door is their business. However, as I understand, people are being hurt.

I've been informed, partly from this thread, that some people are being psychologically manipulated to part with their assets even to the point of bankruptcy, sometimes leading to family breakups. Although I don't know these people personally to verify these claims (and it's hard for them to reveal they stories, out of shame), I can see how this can happen from my knowledge of such organisations. (I'm refraining from the c-word here.)

For the purpose of educating the public, I see a purpose in continuing this thread. But let us all try to be civil. Besides, a civil tone makes your audience respect you more, and are more easily convinced by you.

Like to remind everyone that should you find any posting improper, please report the post. I don't wish for anyone to be banned, but sometimes we need to do that to reestablish meaningful dialogue.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:30 am

Kumara wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I see no profit in this thread, or those like it. Views are too polarised to have any meaningful dialogue, so it's best not to continue it.

I do feel that much unwholesomeness has occurred here. However, I think the OP and some other posters wants to talk about something they find disturbing about Wat Dk.

The OP's question was answered on the first page. The rest was/is just a waste of energy.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:49 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Kumara wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I see no profit in this thread, or those like it. Views are too polarised to have any meaningful dialogue, so it's best not to continue it.

I do feel that much unwholesomeness has occurred here. However, I think the OP and some other posters wants to talk about something they find disturbing about Wat Dk.

The OP's question was answered on the first page. The rest was/is just a waste of energy.

With respect, Ven. Pesala, the thread rapidly became a place for news about Wat Dhammakaya as it emerges, and some 72 000 views of some 720 posts over nearly 8 years suggest quite strongly that it is meeting a need.

:namaste:
Kim

ManEagle
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby ManEagle » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:44 pm

Kumara wrote: (I'm refraining from the c-word here.)


Ironically the "c-word" was used in the very first reply to the OP's question. Personally I wouldn't describe them that way. They may fit some definitions of a cult but as far as I'm aware, not enough of what they do and practice is that much different (or strange enough) from other strands of Buddhism/religions.

identification
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby identification » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:45 pm

Kumara wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I see no profit in this thread, or those like it. Views are too polarised to have any meaningful dialogue, so it's best not to continue it.

I do feel that much unwholesomeness has occurred here. However, I think the OP and some other posters wants to talk about something they find disturbing about Wat Dk. For me, whether some people think they can buy a hammer from Dk for banging through (not just knocking on) heaven's door is their business. However, as I understand, people are being hurt.

I've been informed, partly from this thread, that some people are being psychologically manipulated to part with their assets even to the point of bankruptcy, sometimes leading to family breakups. Although I don't know these people personally to verify these claims (and it's hard for them to reveal they stories, out of shame), I can see how this can happen from my knowledge of such organisations. (I'm refraining from the c-word here.)

For the purpose of educating the public, I see a purpose in continuing this thread. But let us all try to be civil. Besides, a civil tone makes your audience respect you more, and are more easily convinced by you.

Like to remind everyone that should you find any posting improper, please report the post. I don't wish for anyone to be banned, but sometimes we need to do that to reestablish meaningful dialogue.



Dude, did someone not address the things you're saying in a previous post? Someone here already said that Lp Dhammajayo teaches against donating more than you can handle, or something along those lines.

Here is Luang Por Dattajivo, the vice Abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya. He teaches that meditation is free, and it is the big type of merit. As for the smaller types of merit, he teaches to donate to hospitals and release fish. Also to volunteer in public welfare work with religious or secular organizations for people disinclined to make merit in the Buddhist religion. The idea is getting people to get into the habit of giving, people can donate to any place they want, not just a temple. Starting from small merit until they come upon the big merit, meditation, which is free.


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dhammafriend
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby dhammafriend » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:51 pm

slimdabuddhist wrote:I don't blindly follow everything I see and just go with it. It's like that analogy of would you jump off a cliff if someone told you that it'll help achieve happiness. Calling me shortsighted just because I don't agree with you, tells me alot about Wat Dhammakaya followers and how they brush people off if we don't agree with how things are. Just because these ppl have masters and degrees doesn't mean I have to agree with them . It's like saying because Ben Carson is a surgeon he is qualified to be president. And look one of your fellow Dhammakaya followers is critisizing someone with a doctorate and calling him names because he doesn't agree with the temple's views so don't be preach if yall can't do the same.


Sigh....
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Metta
Dhammafriend

Natthi me saranam annam buddho me saranam varam
For me there is no other refuge, the Buddha is my excellent refuge.
Etena saccavajjena vaddheyyam satthu-sasane
By the utterance of this truth, may I grow in the Master’s Way.

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby slimdabuddhist » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:29 am

lol honestly arguing with WPD followers is like trying to save someone from a pyramid scheme but they're already in too deep.

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dhammafriend
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby dhammafriend » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:01 pm

slimdabuddhist wrote:lol honestly arguing with WPD followers is like trying to save someone from a pyramid scheme but they're already in too deep.


Dude, if you paid any attention and actually read my posts, you would know that I am not a follower of the Wat. I have attempted to bring nuance into this highly emotive thread. Many of us here are highly critical of their practices regarding fundraising etc.
This does not however, make them into an evil cult bent on destroying the earth.

Investigating the truth claims made by some posters here, have lead me to conclude that some of the information being shared by them is actually false (wrong speech? Does that sound familiar to you?) So if good, pious True Buddhists(tm) can resort to lying to paint the Wat in an unflattering light, then something more complex must be afoot. For example:

As you know, Theravada monastic institutions rely directly on donations from the laity to exist and expand. Money going to one wat is money not shared with another, this creates competition for donors among the monastic fraternities and elites. And it gets vicious my friend. Don't let all this pious clutching of pearls fool you. There's money to be made, and some good Bhikkhus want some of that cheese baby.

As I said, if you are unwilling to do the research into what it is you are critiquing, you are blowing hot air. You have no idea sociologically, why the Thai middle class is lapping up the presentation of Dhamma at that Wat. Why they are walking away from other stagnant and ossified temples. There's research out there, dude, ehipassiko...
Metta
Dhammafriend

Natthi me saranam annam buddho me saranam varam
For me there is no other refuge, the Buddha is my excellent refuge.
Etena saccavajjena vaddheyyam satthu-sasane
By the utterance of this truth, may I grow in the Master’s Way.

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby slimdabuddhist » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:00 pm

I don't need to do research on the the wat because I actually ordained there and attended that temple in the USA for more than 3 to 4 years. Why would I have to go do research when I already have personal experience? Have you even attended the wat before? Do you know the people there personally? Have you actually experienced what everybody was talking about here in this thread? I've seen so much laziness and corruption, and when I found this thread, it made me happy because I could share my experiences to others who know nothing of the temple. Yeah if your research includes nuns from WPD meditating to deflect the nukes from flying into Thailand then you are spot on. :alien:

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mikenz66
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:45 pm

Hi slimdabuddhist,
slimdabuddhist wrote:I don't need to do research on the the wat because I actually ordained there and attended that temple in the USA for more than 3 to 4 years. ...

I'm certainly not an apologist for Wat Dhammakaya, but as others have pointed out, the personal experience you report of monks with nice phones eating great food and handling money is something that is readily apparent over the place in Thailand and elsewhere. That doesn't make it good, of course, but it would be more useful to hear about the differences between WD and other large well-endowed organisations.

:anjali:
Mike

identification
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby identification » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:35 am

slimdabuddhist wrote:I don't need to do research on the the wat because I actually ordained there and attended that temple in the USA for more than 3 to 4 years. Why would I have to go do research when I already have personal experience? Have you even attended the wat before? Do you know the people there personally? Have you actually experienced what everybody was talking about here in this thread? I've seen so much laziness and corruption, and when I found this thread, it made me happy because I could share my experiences to others who know nothing of the temple. Yeah if your research includes nuns from WPD meditating to deflect the nukes from flying into Thailand then you are spot on. :alien:


I know many people in the Dhammakaya. The lay practitioners, as opposed to some other Buddhists I meet in Thailand, tend to actually care about practicing the religion. When you go to their facebook pages you can see them jam packed with Buddhist pictures and see their dedication to the religion. I've already met two lay practitioners that have told me they are on the 8 precepts. The Dhammakaya are like the mormons of Buddhism. Strict emphasis on meditation, dana, and following the precepts.

I have a friend that lives at Wat Phra Dhammakaya. She chants, helps with the work at the temple, practices meditation, and hasn't mentioned to me any talk of "deflecting nukes". I mean come on, can you imagine what the people reading this thread think? They worship Hitler, are plotting to take over the world, have meditation timers that are actually secret high tech communication devices, and now the nuns are trying to deflect nukes with meditation? You do understand that Venerable Moggollana, the Buddha's chief disciple in psychic powers, fought a naga using psychic powers, and was said to be able to spin the entire planet earth around like a potters wheel? Maybe some of your problems with the Dhammakaya are actually problems with Buddhism as opposed to the Dhammakaya? Deflecting nukes would be child's play to Moggollana. Venerable Ajahn Mun could travel to the different realms of existence. Bhikkhu Thanissaro talks openly about Ajahn Lee's abilities to make other monks levitate, and to stop car engines with his psychic powers. Is the Thai forest tradition also going to come under scrutiny by you because they teach things you don't believe in? (ie the Buddha's teaching)

I stayed at a forest monastery and we'd be talking about magical tattoo's, 300 year old shamans, Arahants in the forest given magical potions by the Devas to cure cancer, mind reading, Thai forest Voodoo, astrology, Naga's, ghosts, you name it. So deflecting nukes? Is that it lol? What is your evidence for this anyways? You just read some slander on the internet and believed it? As for you seeing so much laziness and corruption, join the club buddy. Someone told me once he had a friend that was at a monastery and the monks would play World of Warcraft all day and he would have to dump out their urine buckets because they were too lazy to go to the bathroom. This is how it is in this day and age. Do you expect Lp Dhammajayo to monitor every single one of his monasteries throughout planet earth, to make sure every single one of the thousands of monks are being perfect holy sages? I knew someone that was ordained at a monastery up in Thailand. The abbot was a student of one of the absolute most elite forest monks in the Thai forest tradition. And at the monastery he'd get crap from the other monks for actually wanting to follow the rules and not touch money. Ajahn Jayasaro talked about how he had someone doing muay thai kicks behind his head at Ajahn Chahs monastery and how the americans there would get crap for actually wanting to practice. Should we all go boycott the forest tradition and Ajahn Chah now because there are some bad monks in the tradition?

If you want to see the serious, strict, and hardcore aspects of the Dhammakaya, then go read Khun Yai and Phramongkulthepmuni. Dhammakaya books are available for free. However, you might be disappointed to see that there are no nuke deflecting or Hitler in them.

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:03 am

identification wrote:I have a friend that lives at Wat Phra Dhammakaya. She chants, helps with the work at the temple, practices meditation, and hasn't mentioned to me any talk of "deflecting nukes".


The various bomb-deflecting stories are very well-known in Thailand and some of them are included in official Dhammakaya Foundation publications, though mainly in ones aimed at a Thai audience. One of the few in English is The Life and Times of Luang Phaw Wat Paknam (Dhammakaya Foundation 1998). A copy used to be available online and the relevant chapter can still be read via archive.org

Wat Paknam was located only a ‘stone’s throw’ away from the lock between the mouth of the Bhasicharoen Canal and the Canal of Greater Bangkok. This was a place of strategic significance and a target for Allied bombing. Luang Phaw had unshakable faith that the omnipotence of the Dhammakaya would protect Wat Paknam and its congregation from the bombs. Luang Phaw’s confidence was not unfounded and in reality, neither Wat Paknam nor the adjacent locks were ever to sustain bomb damage. Temple attendance increased because Wat Paknam gained a reputation for safety in time of air raids. The public believed that Luang Phaw had some sort of magic power and before long, whenever air-raid sirens were sounded, the people of Bhasicharoen would hasten to the temple precincts rather than shelter in air-raid bunkers.

Luang Phaw heard the distant explosions of bombs falling on Bangkok and remained unmoved. “Go and intercept those bombs in case they harm somebody. Have them fall in the ocean instead or in uninhabited areas,” he ordered Kuhn Yay.

Indeed, in 1941, many of the Bangkok newspapers gave front-page coverage to the manifestation of miracles at Wat Paknam. One particular incident which riveted the press was an air-raid on Bangkok – the target of which was the destruction of the Phraputha·yodfa·chulalok Bridge. Wat Paknam was within striking distance of this target. At that time the inhabitants of the neighbourhood gazed up at the skies and were surprised to see large numbers of nuns from Wat Paknam floating in the air, intercepting the bombs dropped by the bombers and patting them with their bare hands to fall harmlessly in the water or uninhabited areas of forest. So many people saw the heroic efforts of the nuns with their naked eyes that the renown of the miracles of Luang Phaw Wat Paknam spread far and wide. Everybody saw the efforts by Luang Phaw to reduce bloodshed and encourage harmony amongst his fellow men.

Apart from bombs aimed correctly missing their target because of interception, another reason why bombs fell harmlessly in unpopulated areas was because bomb aimers could not find targets located in the city. Interviewed later in a documentary, one bomb-aimer reported his surprise at continuously being confused – when close to the target, Bangkok from the air would miraculously appear to him looking like a forest or farmland and the mirage would persist until the bombers gave up their mission and turned homeward.

In 1945, Luang Phaw meditated using the Wisdom of the Dhammakaya and envisioned a horrendously devastating new weapon. It had been built by the Allies to bring the war in Asia to an end. They were planning to test this new weapon, a bomb, by dropping it on Bangkok! Bangkok was the most obvious target, because so many soldiers from the Axis occupied the city.

“What would happen to us if we were victim to this weapon?” Luang Phaw asked the meditators. Kuhn Yay Jan verified that the whole city would be obliterated – razed to the ground. She said that the land would be flattened like the skin of a drum – the whole population anihilated.

On hearing this Luang Phaw ordered Uncle Prayoon to take all of the temple assets and leave – going as far away as he could in seven days. Luang Phaw said, if his efforts met with success, after seven days Prayoon would know and would be able to return to the temple in safety. Luang Phaw spoke of the matter with no one else. He locked the doors of the meditation workshop from the inside – allowing no one to enter or leave. Food and drink would be sent in via the letter box. The workshop group sat for meditation in earnest, in order to try and save the country. For a reason known only to Luang Phaw and his meditators, the bomber and the bomb never arrived in Bangkok. The Allies had for some reason changed their minds. It had taken them seven days of perpetual meditation behind locked doors to influence that decision for the sake of their fellow men...

https://web.archive.org/web/20011021004616/http://repository0.tripod.com/lpwpn_09.html

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby slimdabuddhist » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:11 am

Thank you pun tay I was looking for that excerpt I just wasn't looking in the right places. I remember reading this and it didn't sound right at all. It felt like they were trying to immortalize luang poo as some jedi master spirit.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:21 am

This whole "Wat Dhammakaya" business, to be honest, seems like an issue that specifically limitedly relevant to Thai culture. How many posters here are deeply linked to Thai culture and politics on a personal level? Context is very important before one forms an opinion of an issue that is intrinsic to a specific culture.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

identification
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby identification » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:40 am

Dhammanando wrote:
identification wrote:I have a friend that lives at Wat Phra Dhammakaya. She chants, helps with the work at the temple, practices meditation, and hasn't mentioned to me any talk of "deflecting nukes".


The various bomb-deflecting stories are very well-known in Thailand and some of them are included in official Dhammakaya Foundation publications, though mainly in ones aimed at a Thai audience. One of the few in English is The Life and Times of Luang Phaw Wat Paknam (Dhammakaya Foundation 1998). A copy used to be available online and the relevant chapter can still be read via archive.org

Wat Paknam was located only a ‘stone’s throw’ away from the lock between the mouth of the Bhasicharoen Canal and the Canal of Greater Bangkok. This was a place of strategic significance and a target for Allied bombing. Luang Phaw had unshakable faith that the omnipotence of the Dhammakaya would protect Wat Paknam and its congregation from the bombs. Luang Phaw’s confidence was not unfounded and in reality, neither Wat Paknam nor the adjacent locks were ever to sustain bomb damage. Temple attendance increased because Wat Paknam gained a reputation for safety in time of air raids. The public believed that Luang Phaw had some sort of magic power and before long, whenever air-raid sirens were sounded, the people of Bhasicharoen would hasten to the temple precincts rather than shelter in air-raid bunkers.

Luang Phaw heard the distant explosions of bombs falling on Bangkok and remained unmoved. “Go and intercept those bombs in case they harm somebody. Have them fall in the ocean instead or in uninhabited areas,” he ordered Kuhn Yay.

Indeed, in 1941, many of the Bangkok newspapers gave front-page coverage to the manifestation of miracles at Wat Paknam. One particular incident which riveted the press was an air-raid on Bangkok – the target of which was the destruction of the Phraputha·yodfa·chulalok Bridge. Wat Paknam was within striking distance of this target. At that time the inhabitants of the neighbourhood gazed up at the skies and were surprised to see large numbers of nuns from Wat Paknam floating in the air, intercepting the bombs dropped by the bombers and patting them with their bare hands to fall harmlessly in the water or uninhabited areas of forest. So many people saw the heroic efforts of the nuns with their naked eyes that the renown of the miracles of Luang Phaw Wat Paknam spread far and wide. Everybody saw the efforts by Luang Phaw to reduce bloodshed and encourage harmony amongst his fellow men.

Apart from bombs aimed correctly missing their target because of interception, another reason why bombs fell harmlessly in unpopulated areas was because bomb aimers could not find targets located in the city. Interviewed later in a documentary, one bomb-aimer reported his surprise at continuously being confused – when close to the target, Bangkok from the air would miraculously appear to him looking like a forest or farmland and the mirage would persist until the bombers gave up their mission and turned homeward.

In 1945, Luang Phaw meditated using the Wisdom of the Dhammakaya and envisioned a horrendously devastating new weapon. It had been built by the Allies to bring the war in Asia to an end. They were planning to test this new weapon, a bomb, by dropping it on Bangkok! Bangkok was the most obvious target, because so many soldiers from the Axis occupied the city.

“What would happen to us if we were victim to this weapon?” Luang Phaw asked the meditators. Kuhn Yay Jan verified that the whole city would be obliterated – razed to the ground. She said that the land would be flattened like the skin of a drum – the whole population anihilated.

On hearing this Luang Phaw ordered Uncle Prayoon to take all of the temple assets and leave – going as far away as he could in seven days. Luang Phaw said, if his efforts met with success, after seven days Prayoon would know and would be able to return to the temple in safety. Luang Phaw spoke of the matter with no one else. He locked the doors of the meditation workshop from the inside – allowing no one to enter or leave. Food and drink would be sent in via the letter box. The workshop group sat for meditation in earnest, in order to try and save the country. For a reason known only to Luang Phaw and his meditators, the bomber and the bomb never arrived in Bangkok. The Allies had for some reason changed their minds. It had taken them seven days of perpetual meditation behind locked doors to influence that decision for the sake of their fellow men...

https://web.archive.org/web/20011021004616/http://repository0.tripod.com/lpwpn_09.html


Thanks a lot :twothumbsup: Nice story. Sounds like Phramongkulthepmuni and Khun Yai Jan were able to stop a disaster without hurting anyone. And of course, this is all completely in line with the teachings of the Buddha.

Supranormal Powers

"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, he directs and inclines it to the modes of supranormal powers. He wields manifold supranormal powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, and mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. Just as a skilled potter or his assistant could craft from well-prepared clay whatever kind of pottery vessel he likes, or as a skilled ivory-carver or his assistant could craft from well-prepared ivory any kind of ivory-work he likes, or as a skilled goldsmith or his assistant could craft from well-prepared gold any kind of gold article he likes; in the same way — with his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability — the monk directs and inclines it to the modes of supranormal powers... He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.

"This, too, great king, is a fruit of the contemplative life, visible here and now, more excellent than the previous ones and more sublime." - From the Samaññaphala Sutta.

There's also stories in the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition of Dipa Mas psychic powers. As well as the Thai forest tradition. Ajahn Lee, in his free book keeping the breath in mind, teaches that various supernormal powers develop from the four bases of the breath, the tip of the nose, the middle of the forehead, the top of the head, and the middle of the brain, and he teaches to work with the breath energy in these spots. Ajahn Fuang, Bhikkhu Thanissaros teacher, had said that Ajahn Lee had all the psychic powers besides the ability to levitate, but he could make other people levitate. Bhikkhu Thanissaro tells a story in his forest master series where Ajahn Lee was making the monks float up into the air and Ajahn Fuang had used the earth element to stick himself into the ground so Ajahn Lee couldn't make him float. Magic is a part of Buddhism, the Buddha taught it, so it's unfair for anyone to criticize the Dhammakaya for it when other traditions teach it and the Buddha taught it. It's like criticizing christians for teaching that heaven is real.

identification
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby identification » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:45 am

slimdabuddhist wrote:Thank you pun tay I was looking for that excerpt I just wasn't looking in the right places. I remember reading this and it didn't sound right at all. It felt like they were trying to immortalize luang poo as some jedi master spirit.



And so how do you feel when the Buddha sent Maha-Moggallana to do battle with a naga using his psychic powers. Do you feel like the Buddha was trying to immortalize Maha-Moggallana into a Jedi Master spirit?

Maybe it's the teachings of the Buddha you have a problem with and not just the Dhammakaya

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pilgrim
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby pilgrim » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:51 am

A lot of this stuff is just folk religion tied up with Buddhism. Kinda like fundie Christians claiming to hear trumpets in the sky, and that prophecies are coming true and the anti-Christ is now in the White House. These beliefs are mostly within the US fundie Christian community but are also exported thru their branch churches and online media. One can mock these beliefs but there will always be a group who take these seriously.

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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 am

dhammafriend wrote:
slimdabuddhist wrote:lol honestly arguing with WPD followers is like trying to save someone from a pyramid scheme but they're already in too deep.


Dude, if you paid any attention and actually read my posts, you would know that I am not a follower of the Wat. I have attempted to bring nuance into this highly emotive thread. Many of us here are highly critical of their practices regarding fundraising etc.
This does not however, make them into an evil cult bent on destroying the earth.


I don't recall reading anything here that says so. I don't deny that you may have heard such things from others though.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

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Kumara
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:00 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi slimdabuddhist,
slimdabuddhist wrote:I don't need to do research on the the wat because I actually ordained there and attended that temple in the USA for more than 3 to 4 years. ...

I'm certainly not an apologist for Wat Dhammakaya, but as others have pointed out, the personal experience you report of monks with nice phones eating great food and handling money is something that is readily apparent over the place in Thailand and elsewhere. That doesn't make it good, of course, but it would be more useful to hear about the differences between WD and other large well-endowed organisations.

:anjali:
Mike


Doesn't "meditating to deflect the nukes from flying into Thailand" count?
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

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mikenz66
Posts: 14719
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:05 am

Hi Bhante,

I'm sure you know that you'll find amulets for sale in almost all Thai Wats. Those fall under the same category I think.

:anjali:
Mike


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