Gender Equality Poll

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Which Gender is the Superior?

1.Male gender is the superior
7
20%
2.Female gender is the superior
2
6%
3.Both are equal
21
60%
4.Partly 3 and partly 1
5
14%
5.Partly 3 and partly 2
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 35

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Aloka
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by Aloka » Mon May 13, 2019 1:50 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 am
DNS wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 3:04 am
Mara can only be male. :tongue:
I hear he has some pretty good looking daughters though..
Image


.

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Dan74-MkII
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by Dan74-MkII » Mon May 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Zom wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 9:03 pm
What is your understanding/explanation of Kanhasappa sutta-1/2 and Avenika dukkha sutta?
Last one is about suffering, so what?
First two ones are addressed to monks (men). I guess if the Buddha had spoken to nuns he might have said the same about men 8-) Also, there exists another explanation like these short misogynistic texts are not Buddha's words but later addition to Canon spoken by some famous, though ignorant monks. Well, there are late additions to Canon, so this can be true.
:goodpost:

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Aloka
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by Aloka » Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 pm

The Role and Rights of Women in Buddhism

An article from the website of the Theravada Buddhapadipa Temple UK:
The rights of women can be summarised as the freedom from discrimination and equal opportunities with men. In India, during the time of the Buddha, women were treated as inferior to men; a son was more preferable than a daughter. Despite such social conventions, the Buddha regarded women as equal to men. When Ven. Ananda asked whether women have the potential to attain enlightenment, the Buddha said yes – just like their male counterparts. Thus over 2600 years ago, the Buddha gave women permission to enter the Holy Order. Since then many female monks achieved enlightenment. Two of them were appointed female chief disciples of the Buddha alongside his two male chief disciples. The Buddha also suggested some etiquette rules for a husband: he should honour, respect and be faithful to his wife, allow her to superintend the household affairs, and provide her with ornaments. In return, the wife should do her duty well, look after his relatives, be faithful, take care of what he brings home and be diligent in all her duties. It is clear that Buddhism promotes women’s rights and equality.

Continues at the link:

http://www.watbuddhapadipa.org/the-role ... -buddhism/
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SDC
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by SDC » Sun May 19, 2019 12:35 pm

Eko Care wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:14 am
According to my knowledge of Vinaya and as all the monks I met say,

"Even a today ordained Puthujjana monk should never bow down to a 100 years senior Arahant nun. And a 100 years senior Arahant nun must bow down to a today ordained Putujjana monk."

This is clearly mentioned in '8 Garu Dhammas'. And in somewhere else in the Vinaya, the womankind are mentioned as Avandiya (not worthy of bowing down) by the monks.

Further more even a 100 year senior Arahant nun is not allowed to give an advice to a today ordained Putujjana monk.
The Buddha has mentioned that the admonition (vacana patha) of monks by nuns is closed and vice-versa is opened.
Do you have a source aside from your "knowledge of the vinaya"? Like maybe a citation from the vinaya?

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Aloka
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by Aloka » Sun May 19, 2019 3:10 pm

budo wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:36 pm

What about this Jataka tale? Seems like the Buddha was anti feminist.
........
The Jataka Tales were a later development than the early Buddhist texts.

This information is from "The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Texts" by Bhikkhu Sujato & Bhikkhu Brahmali.


The Jātaka literature is attested in the Mauryan period, yet it is clearly later than the EBT''S.

Jātakas are depicted in several of the earliest Buddhist monuments, such as Bhārhut and Sāñcī, but they are clearly later than the EBT''S [1, 26–28].

This is despite the fact that they often depict social conditions that are earlier than the time of the Buddha (e.g. the king in Benares) and many of them must have their roots in that period [2, 202]. The large number of Jātakas originated over a long period, some being pre-Buddhist, and were adopted into Buddhism as it became a popular religion in the Mauryan
and following eras. Important developments include:

1. The Jātakas, unlike the EBT's, are almost entirely narrative.
2. Even the earliest layer of the Jātakas, the verses, generally lack the distinct Buddhist terminology and doctrinal terms found in the EBT's.
3. Whereas in the EBT's the Buddha or one of his chief disciples invariably is the protagonist, in the Jātakas the protagonist is always the bodhisatta.
4. The structure of the Jātaka tales is different from Suttas of the EBT's
[2, ch. 11].
5. The Jātakas mention things not found in the EBT's such as bricks (iṭṭhaka) and trade routes to countries outside of India (e.g. Jā no. 339).

https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... ticity.pdf
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budo
Posts: 1752
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by budo » Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 pm

Aloka wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:10 pm
budo wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:36 pm

What about this Jataka tale? Seems like the Buddha was anti feminist.
........
The Jataka Tales were a later development.

This information is from "The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Texts" by Bhikkhu Sujato & Bhikkhu Brahmali.


The Jātaka literature is attested in the Mauryan period, yet it is clearly later than the EBT''S.

Jātakas are depicted in several of the earliest Buddhist monuments, such as Bhārhut and Sāñcī, but they are clearly later than the EBT''S [1, 26–28].

This is despite the fact that they often depict social conditions that are earlier than the time of the Buddha (e.g. the king in Benares) and many of them must have their roots in that period [2, 202]. The large number of Jātakas originated over a long period, some being pre-Buddhist, and were adopted into Buddhism as it became a popular religion in the Mauryan
and following eras. Important developments include:

1. The Jātakas, unlike the EBT's, are almost entirely narrative.
2. Even the earliest layer of the Jātakas, the verses, generally lack the distinct Buddhist terminology and doctrinal terms found in the EBT's.
3. Whereas in the EBT's the Buddha or one of his chief disciples invariably is the protagonist, in the Jātakas the protagonist is always the bodhisatta.
4. The structure of the Jātaka tales is different from Suttas of the EBT's
[2, ch. 11].
5. The Jātakas mention things not found in the EBT's such as bricks (iṭṭhaka) and trade routes to countries outside of India (e.g. Jā no. 339).

https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... ticity.pdf
.
The suttas mention the jataka tales
"Then there is the case where a monk studies the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. He doesn't spend the day in Dhamma-study. He doesn't neglect seclusion. He commits himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who dwells in the Dhamma.
-AN 5.73

Which are true or not, I don't know, but they're in the Khuddaka Nikaya nonetheless.

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Aloka
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by Aloka » Sun May 19, 2019 3:25 pm

budo wrote:Which are true or not, I don't know, but they're in the Khuddaka Nikaya nonetheless.
Your quote doesn't actually say "Jataka Tales". Anyway, you'll need to take it up with Ajahn Sujato and Ajahn Brahmali at the Sutta Central forum, I'm just repeating what's in the article they wrote a few years ago.

:shrug:

Also at the "Learn Religion" website it says:
Many of these poems and stories come from much older sources. Some of the stories are adapted from a Hindu text, Panchatantra Tales, written by Pandit Vishu Sharma around 200 BCE. And it is probable many of the other stories are based on folk tales and other oral traditions that have otherwise been lost.

https://www.learnreligions.com/the-jataka-tales-450050
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Last edited by Aloka on Sun May 19, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

budo
Posts: 1752
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by budo » Sun May 19, 2019 3:26 pm

Aloka wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:25 pm
budo wrote:Which are true or not, I don't know, but they're in the Khuddaka Nikaya nonetheless.
Your quote doesn't actually say "Jataka Tales". Anyway, you'll need to take it up with Ajahn Sujato and Ajahn Brahmali at the Sutta Central forum, I'm just repeating what's in their article.

:shrug:
I knew you would be lazy enough to not check the pali

"statements, songs, discussions, verses, inspired exclamations, legends, stories of past lives, amazing stories, and classifications.
suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. "

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mikenz66
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by mikenz66 » Sun May 19, 2019 9:02 pm

Thread locked for consultation.

Mike

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retrofuturist
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 19, 2019 11:00 pm

Greetings,

Any off-topic guff has been removed, which has enabled us to re-open this topic and move it to the Hot Topics section to prevent that from happening again.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Gender Equality Poll

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:01 am

Both men and woman are in the fourfold assembly of the Ariya Mahasangha.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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