Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

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pilgrim
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Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by pilgrim » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:17 pm

"Buddhist scholars attending the 1st Makhapuja International Conference on ‘The Future of Buddhism in Asia’ have warned that consumerist trends within the monastic order and aggressive proselytism by Islamic and Christian groups are a threat to the future of Buddhism in Asia."
https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/t ... sm-in-asia

SarathW
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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by SarathW » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:19 am

Buddha said the biggest threat to Buddhism come from within. I forgot the Sutta reference.
This is no difference to Abrahmic religion. The face the same thret.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by Manopubbangama » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:26 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:19 am
Buddha said the biggest threat to Buddhism come from within.
This.

Buddhists historically have an incredible knack for routing Mohammadanism. Its aggressive inroads into Burma are not even making waves against a Nobel-Peace-Prize winning Pacifist.

And the theology? With the murderous prophet who dresses up in a 9 year old girls' clothing and then rides a magical pony to heaven? :shrug:

Ya, thats threatening....

Buddhism is threatened by spiritual crossdressing tourists via dilution. But like Malaria this disease seems to affect only the very old and the very young and not mature Buddhist countries with roots.

We are only at half time in this dispensation, and the sasana will outlive all of us, and our children and our children's children.

On the other side of the coin, I highly doubt Islam will be able to survive the new level of scholarship that casts doubts on all of its founding myths; Allah promised victory not defeat after defeat after defeat.


Thats just the way things are.

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:39 pm

pilgrim wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:17 pm
"Buddhist scholars attending the 1st Makhapuja International Conference on ‘The Future of Buddhism in Asia’ have warned that consumerist trends within the monastic order and aggressive proselytism by Islamic and Christian groups are a threat to the future of Buddhism in Asia."
https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/t ... sm-in-asia
Thanks for the interesting article, pilgrim; this is one of the reasons I love Thais.
[Edit: Added the link to conference topic "abstracts" http://sh.mahidol.ac.th/ccs/1419-2/ ]


This may be slightly off topic, but related to the human rights mentioned in the article.

Yesterday, I happened to watch some Sayadaw on TV discussing his definition of human rights. He said the real human right is the right of a human to be a stream-winner (never going down to the lower realms again.) I agree with him especially when considering, from the perspectives of, increasingly overwhelming animal rights which, I'm sure, will never include this one particular "right".

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
metta
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  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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pilgrim
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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by pilgrim » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:47 pm

Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:26 pm
SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:19 am
Buddha said the biggest threat to Buddhism come from within.
This.

Buddhists historically have an incredible knack for routing Mohammadanism. Its aggressive inroads into Burma are not even making waves against a Nobel-Peace-Prize winning Pacifist.
....

On the other side of the coin, I highly doubt Islam will be able to survive the new level of scholarship that casts doubts on all of its founding myths;
The historical facts prove otherwise. Islam has supplanted Buddhism in Afghanistan, Pakistan. Bangladesh. Indonesia, Malaysia and Maldives. Elsewhere Buddhism is struggling against Islam in many parts of SE Asia and in Ladakh . Pacifist Buddhism is no match for an aggressive, militant Islam funded by petrodollars.

Islam is shielded against the destructive forces of modern scholarship by its resistance to modern secular education. An eg of this ideology is the extremist Boko Haram, a name which literally means Boko = Books, Haram = Not permitted

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by budo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:02 pm

pilgrim wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:47 pm

The historical facts prove otherwise. Islam has supplanted Buddhism in Afghanistan, Pakistan. Bangladesh. Indonesia, Malaysia and Maldives. Elsewhere Buddhism is struggling against Islam in many parts of SE Asia and in Ladakh . Pacifist Buddhism is no match for an aggressive, militant Islam funded by petrodollars.

Islam is shielded against the destructive forces of modern scholarship by its resistance to modern secular education. An eg of this ideology is the extremist Boko Haram, a name which literally means Boko = Books, Haram = Not permitted
Buddhism is going to die, it's already nearly dead from within due to splintering/counterfeit Buddhism, how many self-proclaimed Buddhists actually read the suttas? Most of them are Mahayana and Zen and from other traditions. Buddhism is going to die from the outside as well. The Buddha already said that the world will become chaotic, then a peace time will come and Maitreya will arise.

For now, the window of opportunity for escape is closing, and I suspect there will be more and more wars and attacks in the next 50-100 years as Islam spreads across the globe and as they have more kids on average than everyone else. It's very easy to convert to Islam but incredibly difficult to leave it, a death sentence for most.

So my only suggestion is live away from populated areas like cities, not only for your safety, but also for attaining seclusion, read the suttas, apply the trainings and meditate. Save yourself and those who you love and care about, and if they don't want to listen, wish for them a good life.

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by pilgrim » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:48 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:02 pm

Buddhism is going to die, it's already nearly dead from within due to splintering/counterfeit Buddhism, how many self-proclaimed Buddhists actually read the suttas? Most of them are Mahayana and Zen and from other traditions. Buddhism is going to die from the outside as well. The Buddha already said that the world will become chaotic, then a peace time will come and Maitreya will arise.
If we extrapolate the trajectory of religious trends, it appears that way. But history is full of surprises and few of the major trends in the last 100 years were foreseen. Right now, Buddhists can only try to address the issues that lie before them. I believe that is what the Thai Conference is trying to do.

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by thang » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:45 am

budo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:02 pm
So my only suggestion is live away from populated areas like cities, not only for your safety, but also for attaining seclusion, read the suttas, apply the trainings and meditate. Save yourself and those who you love and care about, and if they don't want to listen, wish for them a good life.
I recall the solutions suggested by 'mythopoetic men's movement' included 'live away from populated areas'..
The mythopoetic men's movement was a body of self-help activities for men undertaken by various organizations and authors in the United States from the early 1980s through the 1990s. The purpose of these activities was to foster greater understanding of the forces, such as industrialization, influencing the roles of men in modern society and how these changes affect behavior, self awareness, and identity.

Groups formed during the mythopoetic men's movement typically avoided political and social advocacy in favor of therapeutic workshops and wilderness retreats, often performing Native American rituals such as drumming, chanting, and sweat lodges. These rituals were organized to facilitate the personal growth of participants (most often middle-class, middle-aged males) with an intended purpose of connecting spiritually with a lost, "deep" masculine identity or inner self.

The most well-known text of the movement was Iron John: A Book About Men by the poet Robert Bly, who argued that "male energy" had been diluted through modern social institutions such as industrialization, separation of fathers from family life through working outside the home, and the feminist movement. Bly urged men to recover a pre-industrial conception of masculinity through spiritual camaraderie with other men in male-only gatherings.

Other causes claimed by advocates for the loss of the "deep masculine" include:
  • Men no longer being comrades who celebrated their masculinity together. Rather, they had become competitors within their workplaces.
  • Men spending more time in their houses with women than they did with men (in non-competitive terms outside of work). Excessive interaction with women generally kept men from realizing their internal masculinity.
  • Feminism bringing attention to the 'feminine voice.' Through this, the mythopoetic men felt that their voices had been muted (though Bly and others are careful in not blaming feminism for this).
  • The separation of men from their fathers kept them from being truly initiated into manhood, and was a source of emotional damage.
  • Men were suffering further emotional damage due to feminist accusations about sexism. Men should celebrate their differences from women, rather than feeling guilty about them.
  • Men being discouraged from expressing their emotions. Male inexpressivity is an epidemic and does not correspond to their "deep masculine" natures.
Groups of men from the professional class retreated from their female loved ones in order to join in spiritual rituals that emphasized homosociality, with the central goal of reclaiming the parts of their masculinity that they had lost called the "deep masculine."

In the mythopoetic movement, the desire to be spiritual and yet manly is also a factor in the way the group understands the nature of gender and relationships between the sexes. The mythopoetic movement tends to regard gender as biological realities, "hardwired" into the psyches of men and women. This gender essentialism is consistent with the Jungian philosophy undergirding the movement. Mythopoetic men thus speak of the need to recover "deep masculinity," to distinguish what they regard as genuine or mature masculinity from the problematic toxic masculinity of immature males.

Because most men no longer perform masculine rituals, mythopoets assert that men have mutated into destructive, hypermasculine chauvinists, or, in the opposite direction, have become too feminized. The mythopoetic men performed rituals at these gatherings, which were meant to imitate those performed by tribal societies when men initiated boys into a deeply essential natural manhood. The movement emphasized the importance of including multiple generations of men in the rituals, so that the men could learn about masculinity from those who were older and wiser.

As a self-help movement the mythopoetic movement tends not to take explicit stances on political issues such as feminism, gay rights or family law (such as the issues of divorce, domestic violence or child custody), preferring instead to stay focused on emotional and psychological well-being. Because of this neutrality, the movement became a target of social criticism by feminists, and was often characterized as anti-intellectual as well as apolitical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythopoet ... s_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_movement
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by Manopubbangama » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:38 am

pilgrim wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:47 pm
Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:26 pm
SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:19 am
Buddha said the biggest threat to Buddhism come from within.
This.

Buddhists historically have an incredible knack for routing Mohammadanism. Its aggressive inroads into Burma are not even making waves against a Nobel-Peace-Prize winning Pacifist.
....

On the other side of the coin, I highly doubt Islam will be able to survive the new level of scholarship that casts doubts on all of its founding myths;
The historical facts prove otherwise. Islam has supplanted Buddhism in Afghanistan, Pakistan. Bangladesh. Indonesia, Malaysia and Maldives. Elsewhere Buddhism is struggling against Islam in many parts of SE Asia and in Ladakh . Pacifist Buddhism is no match for an aggressive, militant Islam funded by petrodollars.

Islam is shielded against the destructive forces of modern scholarship by its resistance to modern secular education. An eg of this ideology is the extremist Boko Haram, a name which literally means Boko = Books, Haram = Not permitted
Its true; they are good at stealth invasion, massive breeding and then cultural genocide against the indigenous culture; this will work in places like England and Sweden but not in Burma, where their attempts seem to not work: they were offered a nice sweet deal to return to Burma but they are scared.

They don't seem to know what they want now.

So while historically they have genocided Buddhist cultures, they aren't succeeding now in Burma.

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by DooDoot » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:18 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:26 pm
Buddhists historically have an incredible knack for routing Mohammadanism.... Its true; they are good at stealth invasion... in places like England and Sweden... So while historically they have genocided Buddhist cultures, they aren't succeeding now in Burma... they will get their 72 virgins faster than you can say Siege-of-Baghdad.... Allah is supposed to delivery victory but only delivers perpetual poverty and defeat... The greatest friend Islam has in the world is leftism/feminism in the West.
Imo, the only threat to Buddhism is the non-practise of Buddhism; such as the practise of hatred, falsification & promotion of violence. Consumerism, Islam & Christianity can only cause the Dhamma to fade away in non-practitioners. In other words, the only people who leave Buddhism are those who were never really Buddhists to begin with. Buddhism is below:
... they give up killing living creatures themselves. And they encourage others to give up killing living creatures, praising the giving up of killing living creatures.

https://suttacentral.net/sn55.7/en/sujato
129... one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

Dhammapada
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by Pulsar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:44 am

Hi SDA
the real human right is the right of a human to be a stream-winner

Thank you for these words of wisdom.
:toast:

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by Eko Care » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:02 pm
So my only suggestion is live away from populated areas like cities, not only for your safety, but also for attaining seclusion, read the suttas, apply the trainings and meditate. Save yourself and those who you love and care about, and if they don't want to listen, wish for them a good life.
:goodpost:

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by Aloka » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:08 pm

'

Always worth remembering : Suffusion With The Divine Abidings (Amaravati Sangha)





:anjali:

.

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by SDC » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:55 pm

:focus:

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Re: Three Threats to Buddhism in Asia

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:17 pm

Greetings,

This topic is about threats to Buddhism in Asia.

In that context, and in that context only, discussion of Islam is relevant to this topic.

Off-topic referencing of Islam has been removed. As you know, this forum is no longer the place for such discussion...

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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