SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Organisational work, teaching, Sunday school syllabus, charitable work, outreach, sharing of resources, artwork, etc.
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 4468
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by cappuccino »

thepea wrote:
cappuccino wrote:
thepea wrote:

Not a chance.
Very few places have the facilities required for laypersons
lay life has always been imperfect
What are you talking about?
lay life isn't monastic, it's among normal people, hence it's imperfect

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

thepea wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:39 pm
...
...
You cannot quarantine Buddhism to Theravāda. Buddhism or Buddhist is a religious blanket term it must and does include all off shoots of Buddhism.
The essence of Buddha’s dhamma has been watered down and lost in in general. Confusion is probably 85% within this religion. It is why I find Buddhist or Buddhism non related to goenka Vipassana.


  • To those vibrating "atoms" of peace,
    Circulating and Protecting the Earth, through
    • immensity of great oceanic currents
    • serenity of relaxing intercontinental breezes
    • ubiquity of quenching continental raindrops
    • tranquility of a pristine Everestial snowflake
      • Originating from ashes of equanimity, spread onto the Irrawaddy River of Burma, back seven years,
  • If I were to ask: "Guruji, Are you
    • a follower of Buddha?
    • a follower of Dhamma?
    • definitely sure about arahant'ness of Webu Sayadaw?
    • enthusiastic about your teacher's tradition not being labeled Buddhism?"
  • Goenkaji's reply would most certainly be:
    • Yes!
    • Yes!
    • Yes!
    • And, Yes!

And, yet, I believe, his sincere and well-wishing enthusiasm alone would not make the teachings less Buddhistic than those of many other Buddhisms.
Personally I feel his teachings more Buddhistic than those; that, btw, is not so much different from what I feel when finding out some non-theravadan friends are much more theravadan than some theravadan ones, on DW.






That said,
here is what I see, by connecting these sentences:
    • You cannot quarantine Buddhism to Theravāda.
      implies: Only* Theravada protects Buddhism. [if you don't want to mean other way around, of couse]
      [with an implicit "Only" pertaining to the word "quarantine" in the context the sentence.]
      For, this sentence I want to say: "Thanks for your kind appreciation!".
    • Buddhism or Buddhist is a religious blanket term it must and does include all off shoots of Buddhism.
      implies: Other schools dilute Buddhism despite its "quarantine" by Theravada
      (in the light of the following sentence)
    • The essence of Buddha’s dhamma has been watered down and lost in in general.
      implies: the result of that dilution.
    • Confusion is probably 85% within this religion.
      implies: also the result of dilution. (when assuming the sentences are connected, and, not stand-alones)
    • It is why I find Buddhist or Buddhism non related to goenka Vipassana.
      implies: (strange conclusion)
Non-related-ness 'to the whole' seems impossible when "goenka Vipassana" itself is implicitly assumed as "essence of Buddha’s dhamma" in the light of Buddhism in general, in the context of the paragraph.






After all,
  • If there were a list in which the students are ranked, by the level of unconditional loyalty to their respective teachers, I can't see many beyond Guruji, to be at the top.
  • And, his teacher certified him by literally spelling out:
    • "and I accordingly authorize him to teach Buddhist Meditation on my behalf ..."


:heart:
.


🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐

Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

thepea
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by thepea »

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:33 am
thepea wrote:
cappuccino wrote:

lay life has always been imperfect
What are you talking about?
lay life isn't monastic, it's among normal people, hence it's imperfect
Monastic life isn’t any more perfect cap, especially when the majority are stuck in and surrounded by confusion.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 5563
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Dhammanando »

thepea wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:39 pm
You cannot quarantine Buddhism to Theravāda.
Then it's lucky I wasn't doing any such thing.
thepea wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:39 pm
Buddhism or Buddhist is a religious blanket term it must and does include all off shoots of Buddhism.
Which is precisely what I do take it to mean. I even take the term to include the offshoot known as U Ba Khin-style vipassanā.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 6826
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Sam Vara »

Dhammanando wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:49 pm
the Buddha of the Pali suttas was a teacher who described himself as a vibhajjavādin, “one who makes distinctions”, as opposed to an ekaṃsavādin, “one who makes blanket judgments about things”.
Bhante, is there a sutta where he applies the term to himself?

:anjali:

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 5563
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Dhammanando »

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:44 pm
Bhante, is there a sutta where he applies the term to himself?
Yes, in the Subhasutta (MN 99):
"Master Gotama, the brahmins say this: 'The householder is accomplishing the true way, the Dhamma that is wholesome. The one gone forth into homelessness is not accomplishing the true way, the Dhamma that is wholesome.' What does Master Gotama say about this?"

The Buddha replies:

Vibhajjavādo kho aham'ettha, māṇava; nāham'ettha ekaṃsavādo

"On this point I, brahman youth, discriminate; on this point I do not speak definitely."
(I.B. Horner)

"Student, I speak about this after making an analysis; I do not speak about this one-sidedly."
(Bodhi)

"On this point, student, I speak after analyzing the question, without making generalizations."
(Sujāto)

"I do not praise the wrong way of practice on the part either of a householder or one gone forth; for whether it be a householder or one gone forth, one who has entered on the wrong way of practice, by reason of his wrong way of practice, is not accomplishing the true way, the Dhamma that is wholesome. I praise the right way of practice on the part either of a householder or one gone forth; for whether it be a householder or one gone forth, one who has entered on the right way of practice, by reason of his right way of practice, is accomplishing the true way, the Dhamma that is wholesome."
The term is also applied to him by the householder Vajjiya Mahita at AN 10:94
Gārayhaṃ kho pana, bhante, bhagavā garahanto pasaṃsitabbaṃ pasaṃsanto vibhajjavādo bhagavā. Na so bhagavā ettha ekaṃsavādo.

"The Exalted One, sirs, blames the blameworthy, praises the praiseworthy. In so doing the Exalted One is a particularizer; that Exalted One is not one who makes sweeping assertions herein."
(F.L. Woodward)

"The Blessed One criticizes what deserves criticism and praises what is praiseworthy. By criticizing what deserves criticism and praising what is praiseworthy, the Blessed One speaks on the basis of distinctions; he does not speak about such matters one-sidedly."
(Bodhi)

"Criticizing what should be criticized, praising what should be praised, the Blessed One is one who speaks making distinctions, not one who speaks categorically on this matter."
(Thanissaro)
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 6826
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Sam Vara »

Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:35 pm
....
Many thanks, Bhante, that's helpful.

:anjali:

thepea
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by thepea »

Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:27 pm
thepea wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:39 pm
You cannot quarantine Buddhism to Theravāda.
Then it's lucky I wasn't doing any such thing.
thepea wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:39 pm
Buddhism or Buddhist is a religious blanket term it must and does include all off shoots of Buddhism.
Which is precisely what I do take it to mean. I even take the term to include the offshoot known as U Ba Khin-style vipassanā.
Not sure of u bha khan Vipassana or how he ran retreats I have been told that he was placed under enormous pressure from the Burmese religious buddhists and government to conform to a few of their ritualistic unnecessary rites of passage. Goenka Vipassana has broken free from this lunacy and is the purest form of teaching on the planet at this moment. Nothing else can even come close given this ritualistic infection.
Which is why there are so many offshoots of Buddhism, and why so many monks and lay buddhists remain confused.

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 4468
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by cappuccino »

thepea wrote: and why so many monks and lay Buddhists remain confused.
you need to worry about yourself

thepea
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by thepea »

cappuccino wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:02 am
thepea wrote: and why so many monks and lay Buddhists remain confused.
you need to worry about yourself
You need to understand that what I say is not popular here but it is truthful.

User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by pilgrim »

S. N. Goenka: Emissary of Insight
Daniel Stuart
Shambhala (2020)

An eagerly anticipated biography of S. N. Goenka--one of the most influential meditation masters of the twentieth century.

In a life that saw him evolve from a staunchly religious Hindu to an ecumenical master of Buddhist insight meditation, Satyanārāyaṇ (S. N.) Goenka (1924-2013) became instrumental in popularizing lay mindfulness and insight meditation practice on a global scale. Goenka was in the second generation of an Indian family living in Burma. When he arrived in India in the 1960s, he felt the pull of karmic destiny to teach meditation and thereby repay the ancient debt that Burmese Buddhists owed to India. In the 1970s, as Goenka was becoming an integral part of the Indian Buddhist spiritual landscape, thousands of young people from the United States and Europe flocked to India to explore its spiritual possibilities. Out of this remarkable convergence was launched a global network of practitioners and meditation centers that would become Goenka's legacy. Drawing heavily on Goenka's own autobiographical writings and Dharma talks, S. N. Goenka is the first comprehensive portrait of his life. Daniel Stuart incorporates a wide range of primary documents and newly translated material to offer readers an in-depth exploration of Goenka's life and teachings. Stuart further details the trials and tribulations Goenka faced in building a movement in India in the 1970s, developing a global network of meditation centers, and negotiating a range of relationships with students and religious leaders worldwide. This biography reflects on Goenka's role in the revival of Buddhism in postcolonial India and his emergence as one of the most influential meditation masters of the twentieth century.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/book ... BS_skXX7b4

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjQ0Z9khjQI&t=3445
Venerable Pannobha's praise on Goenkaji method for westerners, which he regards as a theravada one. And, a lot of his [western monks] friends became monks after Goenkaji's retreats.

Video starts playing at: 57:25

:heart:
.


🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐

Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

User avatar
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Re: SN Goenka - Theravada Dhammaduta extraordinaire

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

.

Goenkaji's courses for Bhikkhus

I haven't known this before.

Dhamma Joti, Yangon
Myanmar is also the only country where dedicated courses are held for Bhikkus and Samaneras, led by a Bhikku Teacher. We welcome Bhikkus from other countries to participate on these courses, which normally occur around May and November-December of each year.
http://www.joti.dhamma.org/aboutjoti.html



Dhamma Mandala, Mandalay
Dhamma Mandala Vipassana Meditation Centre is located in outskirts of Mandalay, close to Yaytagun Hill, about 10 miles away from Mandalay. Dhamma Mandala was opened in April 2004 .

The opening ceremony on 21 April was attended by most senior monks from Mandalay, and the first 10-day course was held on 24 April for 101 monks from various parts of Myanmar.
.


🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐

Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

Post Reply