why the reluctance??!

Organisational work, teaching, Sunday school syllabus, charitable work, outreach, sharing of resources, artwork, etc.
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

i hate the west i do like why is it that people dont care enough about others to spread the dhamma. risk being offensive if your intention is compassion. in the suttas it is made clear this is an evangelical religion. the concept of 'pushy' in my opinion does not apply. ghatikara literally dragged the bodhisatta by his hair to see kassapa buddha. who could say they have this much compassion. secular materialists have made people so afraid to be religious or to be like the christians, but you know what, a christian was very nice to me and even tho i disagree with his belief i'm happy that he has faith. it's better to have faith when it helps you act skillfully. i haven't done it yet, but i would totally print off flyers and hang them around town and if one person took in a word of it then i dont care how many people get their panties in a knot
i declare a dhamma jihad
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
User avatar
dylanj
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:48 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj »

:goodpost:
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13460
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Sam Vara »

Dhammarakkhito wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:16 am ghatikara literally dragged the bodhisatta by his hair to see kassapa buddha. who could say they have this much compassion.
Very few of us. Those of us still with hatred should be worried that if we acted in ways that people find offensive and pushy, then we might be acting from that hatred rather than compassion.
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

Go forth, o bhikkhus, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the benefit, for the good, for the happiness of gods and men. Let not two go by one way. Preach the doctrine that is beautiful in its beginning, beautiful in its middle, and beautiful in its ending. Declare the holy life in its purity, completely both in the spirit and the letter. ~ Mahavagga, Vinaya Pitaka.

i anticipated, 'but that teaching is for monks'
'if u make a fool of yourself it turns others away' i disagree, like dylan said the approach here is counterintuitive. if you actually say what you mean a lot of people will listen, and when you realize that what you're doing is harmful you realize how much a person cared for you to bring you to that point. 'leave others to their kamma' is a disdainful attitude in a way. black and white fallacies abound. you can reveal the dhamma to another person even if they aren't kissing your ass to get it, they might not even like it but it may plant a seed and it's merit for you either/or.
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

i just see it as if a person is like banging their head into a wall apparently thrilled about it, my immediate reaction (as a former and sometimes still a head-banger) is to say stop banging your head into the wall. i will totally accept positive criticism about how to be convincing and stuff, but this country is retarded, you aren't supposed to talk about 'religion' because it's offensive. well im not going to talk about the other stuff it lacks value. it's amazing how free speech is the law but the culture tramples it
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
User avatar
dylanj
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:48 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj »

Dhammarakkhito wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:46 am i just see it as if a person is like banging their head into a wall apparently thrilled about it, my immediate reaction (as a former and sometimes still a head-banger) is to say stop banging your head into the wall. i will totally accept positive criticism about how to be convincing and stuff, but this country is retarded, you aren't supposed to talk about 'religion' because it's offensive. well im not going to talk about the other stuff it lacks value. it's amazing how free speech is the law but the culture tramples it
:goodpost:
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

sādhu dylanj
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13460
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Sam Vara »

Dhammarakkhito wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:31 am Go forth, o bhikkhus, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the benefit, for the good, for the happiness of gods and men. Let not two go by one way. Preach the doctrine that is beautiful in its beginning, beautiful in its middle, and beautiful in its ending. Declare the holy life in its purity, completely both in the spirit and the letter. ~ Mahavagga, Vinaya Pitaka.

i anticipated, 'but that teaching is for monks'
'if u make a fool of yourself it turns others away' i disagree, like dylan said the approach here is counterintuitive. if you actually say what you mean a lot of people will listen, and when you realize that what you're doing is harmful you realize how much a person cared for you to bring you to that point. 'leave others to their kamma' is a disdainful attitude in a way. black and white fallacies abound. you can reveal the dhamma to another person even if they aren't kissing your ass to get it, they might not even like it but it may plant a seed and it's merit for you either/or.
Nice quote, but my point was not about monastics or making a fool of oneself. It is about the possibility of deluding oneself such that what is really an expression of anger or hatred is being rationalised by reference to religion. If one has hatred, it can be manifested in all sorts of ways. Anyone dragging someone by the hair needs to be very sure of their motives.

Where did Dylan say the approach was counterintuitive? One might almost think that you have access to his thoughts... :thinking:
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

he said that in a different thread the one about pesticides. my point i guess is people don't say what they mean. they speak around an issue
also i had typed up that post before you posted and then posted it without edit
anger is honey tip poison arrow so you're right but
also buddha said simile about reaching down a child's throat to get a stone it had swallowed. even if you have to draw blood
he also said it is impossible to get someone out of the mud if you are yourself stuck in the mud, i'm not trying to make a one-sided case. i've seen a few threads here that really put me in a state of despair the opinions are apathy idk if they have tried in the past and given up or they just dont care or they are doing dhamma to be trendy
the buddhism on the internet and around this forum is different from how i take it
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by binocular »

Dhammarakkhito wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:16 amwhy is it that people dont care enough about others to spread the dhamma.
What makes you think that is the reason?

Maybe they just don't want to be the blind leading the blind, both falling into a ditch.

i declare a dhamma jihad
Heaven help you if your "dhamma jihad" gets jihaded by your kamma.
:cry:

Dhammarakkhito wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:38 am he said that in a different thread the one about pesticides. my point i guess is people don't say what they mean. they speak around an issue
also i had typed up that post before you posted and then posted it without edit
anger is honey tip poison arrow so you're right but
also buddha said simile about reaching down a child's throat to get a stone it had swallowed. even if you have to draw blood
he also said it is impossible to get someone out of the mud if you are yourself stuck in the mud, i'm not trying to make a one-sided case. i've seen a few threads here that really put me in a state of despair the opinions are apathy idk if they have tried in the past and given up or they just dont care or they are doing dhamma to be trendy
the buddhism on the internet and around this forum is different from how i take it
So you're at least a sotapanna?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
User1249x
Posts: 2749
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by User1249x »

Not enough confidence in The Dhamma
Not enough confidence in debating skills
Fear of alienation because of views
Aversion to conflict

When people realize that their position is irrefutable they should not confuse a view based on the irrefutable with the irrefutable and always show compasion in delivery of the message, picking the right timing and try avoid making people feel bad or stupid on account of their views. That is the real challenge tbh with you.
befriend
Posts: 2283
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by befriend »

invite a monk or Dhamma teacher to come talk at a Unitarian Universalist church. Put up flyers around town for it every month and start a sitting group. This is how the Dhamma is spread.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
befriend
Posts: 2283
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by befriend »

Some Dhamma teachers reach sitting groups via Skype where there's a will there's a way.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
befriend
Posts: 2283
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by befriend »

There is no problem with putting flyers up around town or posting events in the newspaper to come to a Buddhist group or to see a Dhamma teacher.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dharmacorps »

Buddhism isn't evangelical. How do I know? Monks aren't allowed to teach without being asked to teach.

I also find it interesting that one of the main parks the Buddha and Sangha stayed in was next to a butcher who slaughtered pigs. The Buddha was obviously against killing. He never preached to the butcher, and the butcher never asked to be taught dhamma.

This isn't a Judeo-christian religion where we need to convert people. Buddhism is a system of education which people have to voluntarily undertake. As Sam Vara said, you're going to do more harm than good by being preachy, evangelical or heavy handed. If you are happy you have found the dhamma, good-- the best thing you can do now is practice for yourself.
Post Reply