why the reluctance??!

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befriend
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by befriend » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:29 pm

There is a middle way between indifference and proselytizing which I have suggested in my previous posts.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:53 pm

exactly, befriend.

"Just as a firebrand from a funeral pyre — burning at both ends, covered with excrement in the middle — is used as fuel neither in a village nor in the wilderness: I tell you that this is a simile for the individual who practices neither for his/her own benefit nor for that of others. The individual who practices for the benefit of others but not for his/her own is the higher & more refined of these two. The individual who practices for his/her own benefit but not for that of others is the highest & most refined of these three. The individual who practices for his/her own benefit and for that of others is, of these four, the foremost, the chief, the most outstanding, the highest, & supreme. Just as from a cow comes milk; from milk, curds; from curds, butter; from butter, ghee; from ghee, the skimmings of ghee; and of these, the skimmings of ghee are reckoned the foremost — in the same way, of these four, the individual who practices for his/her own benefit and for that of others is the foremost, the chief, the most outstanding, the highest, & supreme.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:57 pm

me personally i had a lot of skepticism but i was told over and over and for me that worked. yes there are people that buddha gave the 'ultimate penalty' by not talking to them because they were unteachable. but he taught many people, even people that cursed him to his face. who of us know who is teachable, who is not.
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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xofz
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by xofz » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:21 pm

Without clout, it is hard to teach. So I keep to myself. The teachings of the Buddha are alive and well. Best to just stay out of trouble. Who needs to be a bodhisattva? Plenty of those around. Truly liberated consciousnesses do not have to spread dhamma; leave that for the sangha. Does there really need to be more teachers? Solitude is the only teacher I needed. The world is on fire; what good could one more firefighter do? The fruit of the Buddha is for one's own benefit. No one is asking me to teach. So I keep to myself.
becoming aware!

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dylanj
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:22 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:12 pm
Buddhism isn't evangelical. How do I know? Monks aren't allowed to teach without being asked to teach.
citation please
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:24 pm

xofz wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:21 pm
Without clout, it is hard to teach. So I keep to myself. The teachings of the Buddha are alive and well. Best to just stay out of trouble. Who needs to be a bodhisattva? Plenty of those around. Truly liberated consciousnesses do not have to spread dhamma; leave that for the sangha. Does there really need to be more teachers? Solitude is the only teacher I needed. The world is on fire; what good could one more firefighter do? The fruit of the Buddha is for one's own benefit. No one is asking me to teach. So I keep to myself.
"Just as a firebrand from a funeral pyre — burning at both ends, covered with excrement in the middle — is used as fuel neither in a village nor in the wilderness: I tell you that this is a simile for the individual who practices neither for his/her own benefit nor for that of others. The individual who practices for the benefit of others but not for his/her own is the higher & more refined of these two. The individual who practices for his/her own benefit but not for that of others is the highest & most refined of these three. The individual who practices for his/her own benefit and for that of others is, of these four, the foremost, the chief, the most outstanding, the highest, & supreme. Just as from a cow comes milk; from milk, curds; from curds, butter; from butter, ghee; from ghee, the skimmings of ghee; and of these, the skimmings of ghee are reckoned the foremost — in the same way, of these four, the individual who practices for his/her own benefit and for that of others is the foremost, the chief, the most outstanding, the highest, & supreme.
AN 4.95
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:26 pm

xofz wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:21 pm
Without clout, it is hard to teach. So I keep to myself. The teachings of the Buddha are alive and well. Best to just stay out of trouble. Who needs to be a bodhisattva? Plenty of those around. Truly liberated consciousnesses do not have to spread dhamma; leave that for the sangha. Does there really need to be more teachers? Solitude is the only teacher I needed. The world is on fire; what good could one more firefighter do? The fruit of the Buddha is for one's own benefit. No one is asking me to teach. So I keep to myself.

"A monk endowed with five qualities practices both for his own benefit and for that of others. Which five?

"There is the case where a monk is himself consummate in virtue and encourages others to be consummate in virtue. He himself is consummate in concentration and encourages others to be consummate in concentration. He himself is consummate in discernment and encourages others to be consummate in discernment. He himself is consummate in release and encourages others to be consummate in release. He himself is consummate in the knowledge & vision of release and encourages others to be consummate in the knowledge & vision of release.

"Endowed with these five qualities, a monk practices both for his own benefit and for that of others.
AN 5.20
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:27 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:12 pm
Buddhism isn't evangelical. How do I know? Monks aren't allowed to teach without being asked to teach.

I also find it interesting that one of the main parks the Buddha and Sangha stayed in was next to a butcher who slaughtered pigs. The Buddha was obviously against killing. He never preached to the butcher, and the butcher never asked to be taught dhamma.

This isn't a Judeo-christian religion where we need to convert people. Buddhism is a system of education which people have to voluntarily undertake. As Sam Vara said, you're going to do more harm than good by being preachy, evangelical or heavy handed. If you are happy you have found the dhamma, good-- the best thing you can do now is practice for yourself.

"A monk endowed with five qualities practices both for his own benefit and for that of others. Which five?

"There is the case where a monk is himself consummate in virtue and encourages others to be consummate in virtue. He himself is consummate in concentration and encourages others to be consummate in concentration. He himself is consummate in discernment and encourages others to be consummate in discernment. He himself is consummate in release and encourages others to be consummate in release. He himself is consummate in the knowledge & vision of release and encourages others to be consummate in the knowledge & vision of release.

"Endowed with these five qualities, a monk practices both for his own benefit and for that of others.
AN 5.20
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:28 pm

"Monks, the establishing of mindfulness is to be practiced with the thought, 'I'll watch after myself.' The establishing of mindfulness is to be practiced with the thought, 'I'll watch after others.' When watching after yourself, you watch after others. When watching after others, you watch after yourself.

"And how do you watch after others when watching after yourself? Through cultivating [the practice], through developing it, through pursuing it. This is how you watch after others when watching after yourself.

"And how do you watch after yourself when watching after others? Through endurance, through harmlessness, through a mind of goodwill, & through sympathy. This is how you watch after yourself when watching after others.

"The establishing of mindfulness is to be practiced with the thought, 'I'll watch after myself.' The establishing of mindfulness is to be practiced with the thought, 'I'll watch after others.' When watching after yourself, you watch after others. When watching after others, you watch after yourself."
SN 47.19
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by dylanj » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:28 pm

"Of two people who practice the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, having a sense of Dhamma, having a sense of meaning — one who practices for both his own benefit and that of others, and one who practices for his own benefit but not that of others — the one who practices for his own benefit but not that of others is to be criticized for that reason, the one who practices for both his own benefit and that of others is, for that reason, to be praised.
AN 7.64
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

binocular
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by binocular » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:05 pm

Image
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Crazy cloud
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by Crazy cloud » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:12 pm

:goodpost:
xofz wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:21 pm
Without clout, it is hard to teach. So I keep to myself. The teachings of the Buddha are alive and well. Best to just stay out of trouble. Who needs to be a bodhisattva? Plenty of those around. Truly liberated consciousnesses do not have to spread dhamma; leave that for the sangha. Does there really need to be more teachers? Solitude is the only teacher I needed. The world is on fire; what good could one more firefighter do? The fruit of the Buddha is for one's own benefit. No one is asking me to teach. So I keep to myself.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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aflatun
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Re: why the reluctance??!

Post by aflatun » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:13 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:05 pm
Image
:rofl:
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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