Dana opportunity

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SarathW
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:17 am

Bhante Sujato has completed new translations of the four Pali nikayas to English.
SuttaCentral is going through a massive transformation and being rebuilt from the ground up.
They expect to reach this milestone by March 2018 and the project cost will be one hundred and fifty thousand Australian Dollars.
Once the project is completed, many people will be benefited from this free access to four Nikayas, considering the fact that the only available Sutta translation by Bikkhu Bodhi will cost about USD 400.00.
For more details:

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/it ... -date/6896
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Garrib
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by Garrib » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:30 am

:thumbsup:

DooDoot
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:59 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:17 am
Bhante Sujato has completed new translations of the four Pali nikayas to English.
SuttaCentral is going through a massive transformation and being rebuilt from the ground up.
Will SuttaCentral only publish Bhikkhu Sujato's idiosyncratic translations, such as the translation of MN 10 currently there (which, among many idiosyncrasies, translates 'ponobbhavikā' as 'rebirth in future lives')? Or will SuttaCentral maintain the translations they currently have licensed to them and thus also offer alternate translations?
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:17 am
They expect to reach this milestone by March 2018 and the project cost will be one hundred and fifty thousand Australian Dollars. Once the project is completed, many people will be benefited from this free access to four Nikayas.
The current search, language & dictionary functions on SuttaCentral are tremendous however if this $150,000 is for the purpose of only publishing Bhikkhu Sujato's translations then, for me, donating money to a personal & sectarian cause is questionable.
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:17 am
considering the fact that the only available Sutta translation by Bikkhu Bodhi will cost about USD 400.00.
Both buying suttas & giving donations costs worked-for-earned money. It seems quite obvious, despite any flaws, Bhikkhu Bodhi made a best effort at an authentic translation. The donation appeals for SuttaCentral are giving the impression these new translations won't have a sectarian agenda & bent.

SarathW
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 am

Both buying suttas & giving donations costs worked-for-earned money.
Do you mean donation and buying is the same?
I do not think so.
Say for Aud 150000 (Usd 120000.00) you can buy say 300 books for 300 people.
Free distribution will benefit many millions of people.
I rather give a donation of $400.00 rather than buying a book knowing that it will benefit many people.
Another point is copywriting Buddha's words is a crime.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:18 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:59 am
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:17 am
Bhante Sujato has completed new translations of the four Pali nikayas to English.
SuttaCentral is going through a massive transformation and being rebuilt from the ground up.
Will SuttaCentral only publish Bhikkhu Sujato's idiosyncratic translations, such as the translation of MN 10 currently there (which, among many idiosyncrasies, translates 'ponobbhavikā' as 'rebirth in future lives')?
Hmm, Bhante Sujato translates:
Yāyaṃ taṇhā ponobbhavikā ...
as
The craving that leads to rebirth in future lives; ...
The PTS dictionary says:
Ponobhavika (adj.) [fr. punabbhava, with preservation of the second o (puno>punaḥ) see puna] leading to rebirth M i.48, 299, 464, 532; S iii.26; iv.186; D iii.57; A ii.11 sq., 172; iii.84, 86; v.88; Nett 72; Vism 506; VbhA 110.
http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/p ... :3084.pali
Bhikkhu Bodhi has:
craving which leads to renewed existence
in his SN 56.11 translation. https://suttacentral.net/en/sn56.11

So it's hardly out of the "idiosyncratic" .
DooDoot wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:59 am
Or will SuttaCentral maintain the translations they currently have licensed to them and also offer alternate translations?
The new site will apparently have multiple translations, so they can keep the Bhikkhu Bodhi and other translations.

:heart:
Mike

DooDoot
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:33 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:18 am
Bhikkhu Bodhi has:
craving which leads to renewed existence
Originally, BB had "renewal of being" in his MN, which I assume "pono" = renewal and "bhava" = being. There are two Pali words here rather than four Pali words translated into: "re" "birth" "future" lives". More importantly, "bhava" is an "asava" or "defilement", for which the living arahant is described as "without bhava". Obviously, the translation "rebirth" is idiosyncratic and "future lives" has not basis in the Pali & is additional. Here-&-now monks, such as Buddhadasa, also translated "bhava" as "existence" and "ponobbhavikā" as "leading to new existence" but did not interpret "existence" materialistically or physically. Therefore, whatever word is chosen for "bhava", be it "becoming", "existence" or "being", each can be interpreted as the reader is inclined. But "rebirth in future lives" is not only alien to the Pali but cannot be subjected to interpretation. In short, if the translation was offered for marking at a university, it would probably fail. The translation has no basis whatsoever in the Pali & appears to be personal sectarianism.
mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:18 am
The new site will apparently have multiple translations, so they can keep the Bhikkhu Bodhi and other translations.
OK. Thanks for that information.

DooDoot
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:49 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 am
Do you mean donation and buying is the same?
Sure. Both require expenditure of money.
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 am
Say for Aud 150000 (Usd 120000.00) you can buy say 300 books for 300 people.
Why would I buy 300 books for 300 people? I don't even know 300 people interested in the Pali suttas & I think, unless a person is physically injured, that individuals capable of benefiting from the Pali suttas would be able to earn $300 & buy their own books. Nothing is free today, which is why SC needs $150,000. In the Buddha's time, Dhamma was an oral transmission, therefore free.
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 am
Free distribution will benefit many millions of people.
I doubt millions of people will benefit. For example, I read this remark in the internet:
I do not think people will read books as they are available fee. I see free bible available in hotel rooms but I never bother to read them. Sutta translations are available free in the net. I bought Bikkhu Bodhi's book but it is collecting dust in my side table... People read only if interesting to read. Many do not think Buddhism is very interesting. Some think it is very depressing.
However, a website devoted to objective study of Buddha-Dhamma is useful to sincere Buddhists.
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 am
I rather give a donation of $400.00 rather than buying a book knowing that it will benefit many people.
How much did you actually personally donate to SC?
SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:14 am
Another point is copywriting Buddha's words is a crime.
Sounds like a left-wing cultural-Marxist idea, such as homophobic, antisemitic, misogynist, racist, etc. So according to SarathW, Bhikkhu Bodhi is now a criminal & the suttas we have used for the last 22 years are a "crime"? :roll: I think calling BB's work a "crime" is indicative of left-wing extremism tainting Buddhism ...

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:40 am

idiosyncratic translations
This is another problem of copyrighting translations.
How many ways can you translate something into the English language?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:55 am

I see free bible available in hotel rooms but I never bother to read them.
Actually, I have read the free bible in Hotel rooms.
I even got a free additional copy of Buddha's teaching available from a hotel in Japan.
Many thousands of people read free Dhamma websites such as Dhamma Wheel, SC, and Access to Insight.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

DooDoot
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:15 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:55 am
Many thousands of people read free Dhamma websites such as Dhamma Wheel, SC, and Access to Insight.
Thanks SarathW. I suppose I posted on this thread because I did not agree with the sentiment of comparing Bhikkhu Bodhi's work & cost as a justification to support SC. Also, I do not believe many people will be benefited from free access to four Nikayas but only a relative few. Also, obviously, I think new unneeded sectarian translations by Bhikkhus Sujato & Brahmali don't justify the cost. With metta.

SarathW
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:27 am

I do not believe many people will be benefited from free access to four Nikayas but only a relative few.
Have you read any free Sutta Translations available in AI or SC?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:30 am

How much did you actually personally donate to SC?
I try to donate 1% of my income to charity.
Bhikkhu Bodhi's Buddhist Global Relief and SC are few of my favorite charities.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

DooDoot
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:12 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:27 am
Have you read any free Sutta Translations available in AI or SC?
I use SC extensively for academic purposes, which mostly involves:

1. Searching a Pali word, term or phrase & viewing the suttas those Pali words are used in. For example: https://suttacentral.net/search?query=jayati

2. Examining the contextual meaning or usage of those words; because I find dictionaries untrustworthy; example: https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.200

3. Having reasonably good English suttas link to the Pali text in the 'Languages' is particularly useful; for example: https://suttacentral.net/pi/an4.200 (click on top left green square).

4. However, when there are poor translations linked to the Pali texts, after finding a relevant sutta on SC using Pali word search, I then refer to my Bhikkhu Bodhi books.

However, just because I use SC extensively does not mean I must praise sectarian translations. I suppose one man's trash is another man's treasure. The Buddha taught conditioned things have two sides: assāda & ādīnava. ;)

SarathW
Posts: 8257
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Dana opportunity

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:52 am

sectarian translations
What do you mean by that?
My English is not that good.
Why I can't use Bhante Sujato's translations instead of Bhikkhu Bodhi?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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