Convertion of muslims

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khemindas
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Convertion of muslims

Post by khemindas » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:01 am

So according to article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam most of muslim thinking that man committing Apostasy from Islam should killed. I think muslims if they converted to Islam should not tell anyone, otherwise they can be killed.

Meggo
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Meggo » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:38 am

Maybe I don't understand, but are you promoting murder?

Garrib
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Garrib » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:54 am

I don't think he is advocating killing, no. I think he is saying that if someone has converted to another religion (Buddhism, for example) from Islam, then they should perhaps keep that to themselves if they live in a place where extremist groups might target. Is that correct?

Meggo
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Meggo » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:25 am

khemindas wrote:So according to article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam most of muslim thinking that man committing Apostasy from Islam should killed. I think muslims if they converted to Islam should not tell anyone, otherwise they can be killed.
So the second sentence should be something like

I think muslims, when they convert from islam (to X), should not tell anyone, otherwise they could be killed.

Yes?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:36 am

Greetings,

Yes, that's what was said.

Arguably good advice... if one is insistent on pursuing "the religion of peace", that is.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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pilgrim
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by pilgrim » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:32 am

There are many ex-Muslims who are active on Facebook and various forums, but they use a pseudonym or otherwise keep their identity secret. Just google the word Murtad , which is Arabic for apostate.

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khemindas
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by khemindas » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:32 am

Meggo wrote:Maybe I don't understand, but are you promoting murder?
No of course. Promoting murder is Parajika for monk. I don't know how did you read my topic. I wrote, that anyone converted to Buddhism from Islam should not tell anyone that he converted, otherwise he would be killed, because according to Islamic religion they should kill anyone who left their religion.

Meggo
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Meggo » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:20 am

Ok, then you are of course right! The problem is in some countries (like mine), if you want to officially declare that you believe in religion-X (like to put that into a document) you can only do that, if you first also officially declare that you don't believe in your "original" religion-Y anymore, by sending the representatives of religion-Y a letter about that, thus practically telling them you are an apostate. You have to do that, if you don't want to break the law!

Caodemarte
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Caodemarte » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:59 am

Different people hold different views at different times as the article says. The Koran itself says "there is no compulsion in religion."

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Mr Man
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Mr Man » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:27 am

khemindas wrote:
Meggo wrote:Maybe I don't understand, but are you promoting murder?
No of course. Promoting murder is Parajika for monk. I don't know how did you read my topic. I wrote, that anyone converted to Buddhism from Islam should not tell anyone that he converted, otherwise he would be killed, because according to Islamic religion they should kill anyone who left their religion.
Hi Bhante,
In the OP you wrote
if they converted to Islam should not tell anyone, otherwise they can be killed
Which has a different meaning to
that anyone converted to Buddhism from Islam should not tell anyone that he converted, otherwise he would be killed
Both of these are incorrect.

For example in the UK I remember at one time there was a mae chee who came from a Thai Muslim background and she was not killed. There was also an anagarika who came from a South Asian Muslim family and he also was not killed.
because according to Islamic religion they should kill anyone who left their religion.
Referring to the Wikipedia article you linked to this does not seem to be the case.

:anjali:

Buddha Vacana
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:42 am

In Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen apostasy is punishable by death sentence.

There are certainly cases of people outside these countries getting murdered for having left the religion as well.

Hence Bhante's advice can be relevant in some places.

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khemindas
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by khemindas » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:43 am

Mr Man wrote:
khemindas wrote:
Meggo wrote:Maybe I don't understand, but are you promoting murder?
No of course. Promoting murder is Parajika for monk. I don't know how did you read my topic. I wrote, that anyone converted to Buddhism from Islam should not tell anyone that he converted, otherwise he would be killed, because according to Islamic religion they should kill anyone who left their religion.
Hi Bhante,
In the OP you wrote
if they converted to Islam should not tell anyone, otherwise they can be killed
Which has a different meaning to
that anyone converted to Buddhism from Islam should not tell anyone that he converted, otherwise he would be killed
Both of these are incorrect.

For example in the UK I remember at one time there was a mae chee who came from a Thai Muslim background and she was not killed. There was also an anagarika who came from a South Asian Muslim family and he also was not killed.
because according to Islamic religion they should kill anyone who left their religion.
Referring to the Wikipedia article you linked to this does not seem to be the case.

:anjali:
ํํYes, sometime some exception are made, but according to Sharia rules it's prescribed to killing. Same as some Nazi not killed jews this as an exception.

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Mr Man
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Mr Man » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:32 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:In Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen apostasy is punishable by death sentence.

There are certainly cases of people outside these countries getting murdered for having left the religion as well.

Hence Bhante's advice can be relevant in some places.
Hi Buddha Vacana
Perhaps Bhante needs to be more precise with his speech.

I searched "apostasy Malaysia" and found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_o ... _state_law

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Bundokji
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Bundokji » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:36 am

I was born as a Muslim and left the religion at a young age. I live in Jordan and i don't hide being a Buddhist, and i am not threatened by anyone.

A distinction should be made between theory and practice. In theory, there is a Hadith which says plainly "kill those who change their religion" referring to Muslims of course. But in practice, most Muslims would not take the law by their hand, and they are willing to listen and to disagree, but without using violence.

There is a big debate among Muslims and between different sects in relation to this issue. When Muhammad started preaching, he was peaceful and introduced certain rules that he changed later when circumstances changed. For instance, drinking alchohol was permitted at the beginning pending that a Muslim does not perform the prayers while under the influence of Alchohol, so many of Muhammad's followers used to drink after the last prayer in the night, and they can get sober before the morning prayer. Then another verse at a later stage banned alchohol completely and replaced the previous one. Both verses are in the Quran, but for those who want to understand Islam they better read it within the historical context.

The abovementioned Hadith was not long before the death of Muhammad, so most clergymen believe that it overrides the dovish and more peaceful verses which was revealed earlier, while those who try to reform emphasize that this Hadith was referring to a specific case and should not be generalized. There is also division on how seriously should Muslims take the Hadith especially when it contradicts the Quran. Most Salafies take the Hadith very seriously. So the distinction made by one of the contributors is valid, that it is more dangerous to declare apostasy in certain countries than others. Different Muslim countries incorporate Islam with the civil law to various degrees. The most extreme cases are Saudi and Iran.

To sum up: from theological point of view, the vast majority believe that Muslims who change their religion should be killed. Moderate Muslims dispute it and try to present Islam as peaceful. Many believe in it but don't act upon it.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Mr Man
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Re: Convertion of muslims

Post by Mr Man » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:01 pm

Thanks for your input Bundokji.

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