Uganda Buddhist Center

Organisational work, teaching, Sunday school syllabus, charitable work, outreach, sharing of resources, artwork, etc.
WorldTraveller
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Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by WorldTraveller » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:07 am

WorldTraveller wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:56 am
SarathW wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:24 pm
Agree.
What is unique about Bhante Buddharakhita (Not to mention some other monks) is his ability to mix Buddhism with his social programme.
I understand he has started an orphanage for which we all can help.

https://ugandabuddhistcenter.org/
Just a curious question: Is it allowed in the Buddha's Teachings for monks to do work for the laity such as building water wells, houses, looking after them, (elderly homes or orphanages)?
I think I found the answer. According to two of my friend Burmese scholar monks, this kind of behaviour might dangerously falls under as “a corrupter of families” (kula dūsaka). Because, unlearned people will place faith, respect and associate such monks for the material benefit they receive from the monk, but not because the monk is developed in mind and able to give True Dhamma & guide people to Nibbana. By this way the good monks who are not in wordly social work will be looked down and not supported even (I myself have seen some examples). Kula dusaka is a level 2 serious fault in the Vinaya (original story here on page 374 of The Book of the Discipline).

The two monks mentioned Sitagu Sayadaw as an Burmese example. They said, in Asia, these kind of monks is using the “people power” gathered in such ways even to change the outcomes of general elections!
Last edited by WorldTraveller on Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a canonical tradition, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’”
- Kālāma-sutta

SarathW
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Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by SarathW » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:36 am

Kula dusaka is a level 2 serious fault in the Vinaya (original story here).
Could someone give me the direct link, please?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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JamesTheGiant
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:20 am

WorldTraveller wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:07 am
[2 serious fault in the Vinaya (original story here).
You just linked to PDFs of the entire vinaya, which is ridiculous. If you're going to make a link, how about make it to the exact rule?
Sorry, that sounded angry, I'm not angry :namaste:
Last edited by JamesTheGiant on Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

WorldTraveller
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:07 am

Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by WorldTraveller » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:55 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:20 am
WorldTraveller wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:07 am
[2 serious fault in the Vinaya (original story here).
You just linked to PDFs of the entire vinaya, which is ridiculous. If you're going to make a link, how about make it to the exact rule?
:oops: Honest mistake buddy. I typed the page #, but when posted it's missing somehow. Anyway, it's on page 374 of The Book of the Discipline :smile:
“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a canonical tradition, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’”
- Kālāma-sutta

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StormBorn
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Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by StormBorn » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:44 am

AgarikaJ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:55 am
Strictly speaking, Theravada monks cannot till the land, cut plants, kill animals, trade objects, handle money, own anything besides a very regulated list of things. They have, literally, 'gone forth' from such things.

However, they can advise laypeople to do this in their stead. So an orphanage headed by laypeople but financed from temple funds and donations would be perfectly okay.
Are you saying monks can ask laypeople to kill animals in their stead? Or I read wrongly? :smile:
Financing an orphanage for the laity from temple funds and donations is not okay at all.
AgarikaJ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:55 am
Therefore, within a modern context of poverty versus ethical conduct, I frankly see nothing wrong with it even for a Theravada monk to become involved in such matters.
Better move away from the "Theravada monk" label and do such activities as a Mahayana monk or even as a layperson.
AgarikaJ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:55 am
It might hamper him strictly speaking in his personal attainments (who are his own responsibility to begin with), but as it increases respect from the laiety for the teachings, it would bring a long-term benefit for the Sangha.
You mean increasing the respect from the laiety for the Mahayana like teachings?
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by SarathW » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:54 am

Better move away from the "Theravada monk" label and do such activities as a Mahayana monk or even as a layperson.
It is not that clear-cut.

What is the yardstick to determine a monk as Theravada?
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33131
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by SarathW » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:57 am

Anyway, it's on page 374 of The Book of the Discipline :smile:
Sorry I still can't get it.
Could you copy the relevant passage here?
Thanks.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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StormBorn
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Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by StormBorn » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:09 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:54 am
Better move away from the "Theravada monk" label and do such activities as a Mahayana monk or even as a layperson.
It is not that clear-cut.

What is the yardstick to determine a monk as Theravada?
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33131
How about Theravada Vinaya to begin with?
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

SarathW
Posts: 10513
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by SarathW » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:37 am

[How about Theravada Vinaya to begin with?/quote]
could you reply to other OP, please?
I do not want to derail this discussion.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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AgarikaJ
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Re: Uganda Buddhist Center

Post by AgarikaJ » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:01 pm

StormBorn wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:44 am
AgarikaJ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:55 am
Strictly speaking, Theravada monks cannot till the land, cut plants, kill animals, trade objects, handle money, own anything besides a very regulated list of things. They have, literally, 'gone forth' from such things.

However, they can advise laypeople to do this in their stead. So an orphanage headed by laypeople but financed from temple funds and donations would be perfectly okay.
Are you saying monks can ask laypeople to kill animals in their stead? Or I read wrongly? :smile:
@StormBorn, you caught me there being too unspecific and misleading when linking statements.

Of course I did not try to insinuate that monks could somehow advise laypeople to kill animals (discounting the fact, that the mass killing of tiny animals is only inadvertent insofar as nobody directly adresses the thought that nearly every action -- or inaction! -- in nature has this as direct consequence).

But mentioning in the presence of laypeople that it would be just great if there somehow would be an orphanage nearby, why not? I know of no rule in the Vinaya being against.
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

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