Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

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pilgrim
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Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby pilgrim » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:40 am

Just aired last week.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:38 pm

:thanks:
It's not really about typical Aussie Buddhists but it's good for what it is.

:namaste:
Kim

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Bhante Lucky
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Bhante Lucky » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:30 am

This video made me sad, that now people will think buddhist monks such as myself are so unfeeling and strict as to not hug their own mother. When in reality there is nothing in the vinaya which would prevent a monk hugging his mum. Unless the monk enjoys incest... :shrug:
Lovely camera-work though, and nice shots of Wat Buddha Dhamma north of Sydney, which is where I'm going for 3 months after the rains.
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saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby JohnK » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:37 pm

Bhante Lucky wrote:...there is nothing in the vinaya which would prevent a monk hugging his mum...

Interesting this should come up now. My first visit to a monastery was last weekend. There were two monks ordaining, and an issue that kept coming up in conversation with the mothers was the no-mom-hugging. I have never read the vinaya, so can't comment on that, but I guess it is a rule in some places.
"Why is it, Master Kaccana, that ascetics fight with ascetics?"
"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics" (AN 2: iv, 6, abridged).
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Dhammanando
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:05 pm

JohnK wrote:I have never read the vinaya, so can't comment on that, but I guess it is a rule in some places.


It ought to be in all places.

At one time, a monk touched his mother out of affection. He became remorseful, thinking, “The Master has laid down a training rule. Could it be that I’ve committed an offense entailing suspension (saṅghādisesa)?” He informed the Master, and the Master said, “There’s no offense entailing suspension, but there’s an offense of wrong conduct (dukkaṭa).”

At one time, a monk touched his daughter out of affection … his sister out of affection. He became remorseful … “There’s no offense entailing suspension, but there’s an offense of wrong conduct.”

At one time, a monk made physical contact with his former wife. He became remorseful … “You’ve committed an offense entailing suspension.”

https://suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-bu-vb-ss2

JohnK
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby JohnK » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:02 pm

There was some question last weekend about "why?"
This is pasted from an email I sent to a good friend who is such a Mom:

Was reading "on the path," and thought of the "no hug."
ThanAjahn says of course that clinging is the cause of suffering.
He then lists 4 types of clinging: to thoughts of sense gratification, to habits and practices, to views, and to doctrines of the self.
He then says (p.18):
"A bit of reflection will confirm that these four types of clinging contain all the details of how we define ourselves, both personally and culturally...This means that, to end suffering, we have to stop clinging to the ways we construct our identities. This is a radical job." [emphasis added].
I'll say! It's about as radical and against-the-grain as it can get.
So, it requires radical and against-the-grain practices. I suppose it would be very hard for a mother's hug NOT to cause some construction/recollection of an identity as that mother's son -- which could hinder the exacting monastic practices designed to lessen all such construction, could interfere with progress made in that direction -- and the monk's path is totally dedicated to that direction. As hard as it may be not to hug, how sad if it were to block a son's progress toward the unfabricated, nibbana.
"Why is it, Master Kaccana, that ascetics fight with ascetics?"
"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics" (AN 2: iv, 6, abridged).
Kindly eyes, not verbal daggers.

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Bhante Lucky
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Bhante Lucky » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:30 am

Dhammanando wrote:
At one time, a monk touched his mother out of affection. He became remorseful, thinking, “The Master has laid down a training rule. Could it be that I’ve committed an offense entailing suspension (saṅghādisesa)?” He informed the Master, and the Master said, “There’s no offense entailing suspension, but there’s an offense of wrong conduct (dukkaṭa).”

At one time, a monk touched his daughter out of affection … his sister out of affection. He became remorseful … “There’s no offense entailing suspension, but there’s an offense of wrong conduct.”

At one time, a monk made physical contact with his former wife. He became remorseful … “You’ve committed an offense entailing suspension.”

https://suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-bu-vb-ss2

Oops, looks like I was wrong.
Hugging mothers is an offense then, but less serious than using a urinal, or chewing noisily (both forbidden in the patimokkha rules).
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Kim OHara
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:54 am

Bhante Lucky wrote:... Wat Buddha Dhamma north of Sydney, which is where I'm going for 3 months after the rains.

Just out of curiosity, how do they define 'after the rains' in a non-monsoonal climate?

:coffee:
Kim

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Bhante Lucky
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Bhante Lucky » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:10 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Bhante Lucky wrote:... Wat Buddha Dhamma north of Sydney, which is where I'm going for 3 months after the rains.

Just out of curiosity, how do they define 'after the rains' in a non-monsoonal climate?

:coffee:
Kim

Basically just a rainy winter for us. We do our Rains Retreat/Vassa at the same time as Thailand, which is convenient because it's a little wet here at that time, and not much good for working outside building. Not much rain (170mm per month maximum) but enough to disrupt re-roofing or painting.
I understand some monasteries in Canada and Northern Europe do their vassa when the snow is deep and it's impossible to do anything outside anyway. Brrr!

Image
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Bhante Lucky wrote:Hugging mothers is an offense then, but less serious than using a urinal, or chewing noisily (both forbidden in the patimokkha rules).

All three offences are of the same grade — offences of wrong-doing (dukkaṭa). Chewing noisily is no offence if it is unintentional. Standing up to use a urinal is no offence if one is sick or in pain. In a situation where one is busting to take a leak, and there is no private cubical where one can sit, one can urinate standing up at a urinal because that would be covered by the escape clause (no offence if one is sick, or in pain).

How seriously an offence is perceived depends largely on the society where one is at present. Where lay Buddhists know the rules about touching women, hugging one's mother might be regarded as very serious. After all, a passerby may not know that she is your mother, sister, or daughter.

Making a noise while eating or urinating while standing up would likely be overlooked pretty much anywhere, but some might be offended by such actions even though no offence at all was being committed, due to their misunderstanding of the rule.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:16 am

Bhante Lucky wrote:
Kim OHara wrote:
Bhante Lucky wrote:... Wat Buddha Dhamma north of Sydney, which is where I'm going for 3 months after the rains.

Just out of curiosity, how do they define 'after the rains' in a non-monsoonal climate?

:coffee:
Kim

Basically just a rainy winter for us. We do our Rains Retreat/Vassa at the same time as Thailand, which is convenient because it's a little wet here at that time, and not much good for working outside building. Not much rain (170mm per month maximum) but enough to disrupt re-roofing or painting.
I understand some monasteries in Canada and Northern Europe do their vassa when the snow is deep and it's impossible to do anything outside anyway. Brrr!

Image

Okay - that makes sense. My climate is monsoonal (North Qld) so we have a Thai-style rainy season but six months out of step with theirs.

:namaste:
Kim

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ryanM
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby ryanM » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:02 pm

phpBB [video]


A response by Ajahn Brahm in the July 7th talk about this very video. Just thought to link it for another perspective. The video will start where it's addressed.

:anjali:
Last edited by ryanM on Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Maitri
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Re: Aussie Buddhists - 6 min documentery

Postby Maitri » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:15 am

A nicely produced video. The monastery looks stunning.

It would have been helpful if they explained why he can't touch his mother or any other female. They spent a lot of time on his family, but didn't offer an explanation for the rule. I think that would have given a better context.
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Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

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