Effects of music

[maniture_85]

I have been a Compulsive Daydreamer, and this was one of the major causes of my depression.
I think most of this was caused by music, which is, as far as i know, a major trigger of this kind of disturb.
So my question comes:
do you ever studied the effects of music on your body and mind in a very deep level? Why is it so powerful? And, is music a good thing or should be avoided / small dosed in daily life?
I struggled trying understand music's effects, i think it requires high mindfulness skills... i tried, but i get caught by mind wandering very easily in a very short time and so can't focus on sensations well.

[dharmacorps]

I used to be a avid music fan and record collector. As I began to meditate more, on some level I began to lose interest in music. Then one day I woke up and decided I wanted to get rid of all my records-- much to my friends and families surprise. It was a lifelong passion of mine. I couldn't explain then exactly why, but I think now that I look at it, it was that music was agitating to the mind and distracting. Like you, I would get caught up in the emotions and daydreaming from music. On some level, music excite and agitates the mind in a way that is pleasurable. But as I developed my meditation, that pleasure seemed actually unpleasant and coarse. There is nothing unethical about listening to music, but maybe experiment with not listening to it. See how it is with silence. Try chanting!

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

A most powerful music for me to bring a quick & easy calmness.



https://youtu.be/2UZCleGk7eg

[sunnat]

Bhikku Bodhi translates Chachakka Sutta : the six sets of six :

"Bhikkhus, dependent on the ear and sounds, ear-consciousness arises: the meeting of the three is ear-contact; with ear-contact as condition there arises [an ear- feeling] felt as pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-nor-painful. When one is touched by a pleasant ear-feeling, if one delights in it, welcomes it, and remains holding to it, then the underlying tendency to lust lies within one. When one is touched by a painful ear-feeling, if one sorrows, grieves and laments, weeps beating one’s breast and becomes distraught, then the underlying tendency to aversion lies within one. When one is touched by neither-pleasant nor-painful ear-feeling, if one does not understand as it actually is the origination, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to that ear-feeling, then the underlying tendency to ignorance lies within one. Bhikkhus, that one shall here and now make an end of suffering without abandoning the underlying tendency to lust for pleasant ear-feeling, without abolishing the underlying tendency to aversion towards painful ear-feeling, without extirpating the underlying tendency to ignorance in regard to neither-pleasant-nor-painful ear-feeling, without abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge - this is impossible."

"Bhikkhus, dependent on the ear and sounds, ear-consciousness arises; the meeting of the three is ear-contact; with ear-contact as condition there arises [an ear feeling] felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant. When one is touched by a pleasant ear-feeling, if one does not delight in it, welcome it, and remain holding to it, then the underlying tendency to lust does not lie within one. When one is touched by a painful ear-feeling, if one does not sorrow, grieve and lament, does not weep beating one’s breast and become distraught, then the underlying tendency to aversion does not lie within one. When one is touched by a neither-painful-nor-pleasant ear-feeling, if one understands as it actually is the origination, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to that ear-feeling, then the underlying tendency to ignorance does not lie within one. Bhikkhus, that one shall here and now make an end to suffering by abandoning the underlying tendency to lust for pleasant ear-feeling, by abolishing the underlying tendency to aversion towards painful ear-feeling, by extirpating the underlying tendency to ignorance in regard to neither-painful-nor-pleasant ear-feeling, by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge - this is possible."

[SarathW]

Thanks for the OP and thanks for Sunnat for the answer.
I have read this sutta many times before but it never hit me like today for some reason.
I am an avid music person since very young. I used to sing very loud inside the house until middle age.
Ringing music in my years was a hindrance to me for a long time.
But I stop listening to music for about three years to get rid of ringing old songs from my head.
Even now the old songs come to my head.
The best answer is given by Sunnat. That is the only way to overcome this problem.
It is not the music, it is our attitude for music is the problem.
Restrain, avoidance, and equanimity is the only way to overcome this problem.
This is why monks are not allowed to sing the Sutta even though some monks try to sing the Sutta.

Having said that recently a person known to me produce a music video and happen to listen to it.
Guess what. I could not sleep for at least five days!! It appears that listening to music is a hindrance to the practice. In Uposatha days Buddhist laypeople avoided listening to the music.

Dhamma Wheel used to have a music thread and was moved to Dhamma Wheel Engaged.
https://dharmawheel.org/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=160

[SteRo]

do you ever studied the effects of music on your body and mind in a very deep level?

"deep level" is relative but I think it's a matter of right practice to investigate into sense object and their effects.

Why is it so powerful?

[1] "'Sensuality should be known. The cause by which sensuality comes into play... The diversity in sensuality... The result of sensuality... The cessation of sensuality... The path of practice for the cessation of sensuality should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"There are these five strings of sensuality. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing; sounds cognizable via the ear... aromas cognizable via the nose... flavors cognizable via the tongue... tactile sensations cognizable via the body — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. But these are not sensuality. They are called strings of sensuality in the discipline of the noble ones.

The passion for his resolves is a man's sensuality,
not the beautiful sensual pleasures
found in the world.
The passion for his resolves is a man's sensuality.

The beauties remain as they are in the world,
while the wise, in this regard,
subdue their desire.

"And what is the cause by which sensuality comes into play? Contact is the cause by which sensuality comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in sensuality? Sensuality with regard to forms is one thing, sensuality with regard to sounds is another, sensuality with regard to aromas is another, sensuality with regard to flavors is another, sensuality with regard to tactile sensations is another. This is called the diversity in sensuality.

"And what is the result of sensuality? One who wants sensuality produces a corresponding state of existence, on the side of merit or demerit. This is called the result of sensuality.

"And what is the cessation of sensuality? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of sensuality; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the way leading to the cessation of sensuality.

"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns sensuality in this way, the cause by which sensuality comes into play in this way, the diversity of sensuality in this way, the result of sensuality in this way, the cessation of sensuality in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of sensuality in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of sensuality.

"'Sensuality should be known. The cause by which sensuality comes into play... The diversity in sensuality... The result of sensuality... The cessation of sensuality... The path of practice for the cessation of sensuality should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

And, is music a good thing or should be avoided / small dosed in daily life?

If - as quoted above - sensuality is known who then would be attracted to listen to music?

I struggled trying understand music's effects, i think it requires high mindfulness skills... i tried, but i get caught by mind wandering very easily in a very short time and so can't focus on sensations well.

Why do you want to re-invent the wheel already taught by the Buddha?

[SarathW]

I have been a Compulsive Daydreamer, and this was one of the major causes of my depression.
I think most of this was caused by music, which is, as far as i know, a major trigger of this kind of disturb.
So my question comes:
do you ever studied the effects of music on your body and mind in a very deep level? Why is it so powerful? And, is music a good thing or should be avoided / small dosed in daily life?
I struggled trying understand music's effects, i think it requires high mindfulness skills... i tried, but i get caught by mind wandering very easily in a very short time and so can't focus on sensations well.

Music does not qualify as a suitable meditation object.
A suitable meditation object requires the :

Mindfulness (sati): this is alertness, which makes us aware of what is happening to us, from moment to moment, through the five physical senses and the mind. Mindfulness is essential to insight meditation, when it must be conjoined with a clear comprehension of the suitability, purpose, and conformity with reality of any action. Then it is called right mindfulness (sammaa sati). Usually the average person acts without any form of mindfulness; his acts are prompted by force of habit. Right mindfulness has two functions: one is to increase the power of recollection and the other is to evaluate what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. Right mindfulness is a spiritual faculty that maintains a proper balance of the other faculties — faith, energy, concentration and wisdom.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el322.html

[Mohan Gnanathilake]

In my opinion, Buddhist music tries to bring harmony into our daily lives and to purify, educate and transform the mind to bring our emotions in line with the Dhamma.

[DooDoot]

I have never found music to affect my meditation; including affecting relatively refined states of samadhi/samatha. Before discovering Buddhism & meditation, when I was young, my mind was attached to music because it was attached to (unskillful) sex & drugs. When I dropped unskillful sex, the drugs & rock-n-roll dropped away by themselves. Therefore, if I hear good music now, I can appreciate it. If I hear music I once enjoyed but is not enjoyable anymore, I realise it was the sex & drugs that made it enjoyable back then.

[confusedlayman]

I have never found music to affect my meditation; including affecting relatively refined states of samadhi/samatha. Before discovering Buddhism & meditation, when I was young, my mind was attached to music because it was attached to (unskillful) sex & drugs. When I dropped unskillful sex, the drugs & rock-n-roll dropped away by themselves. Therefore, if I hear good music now, I can appreciate it. If I hear music I once enjoyed but is not enjoyable anymore, I realise it was the sex & drugs that made it enjoyable back then.

Hi doodot, i am a celebate and never did drugs but can u tell which feeling is powerful and complete? sex or drug or both vs metta? u have personal expeirence with metta if im not wrong and also mundane pleasures in past. I am trying to know without doing sex or drugs.

[DooDoot]

[unskillful] sex or drug

The Buddha said the above is the road to ruin (DN 31; Snp 1.6). I dropped unskillful sex after witnessing my ex-girlfriend (& other women) take 'rebirth' in the hell realms. The Buddha taught sexual misconduct leads to rebirth in hell realm, animal realm or hungry ghost.

metta

I generally don't practise metta. I mostly practise non-harming & compassion plus equanimity.

which feeling is powerful and complete

Samadhi & nibbana are powerful and complete

[cappuccino]

I generally don't practice metta.

why?

[DooDoot]

why?

If i practised metta, i would want to always make you happy & at ease, which probably means i would rarely disagree with your Eternalistic views. I would also have to be notice to MikeNZ, Ceisiwr, SteRo and SarathW. If I was nice to SarathW, he would probably start posting false speech I was an Arahant.

[cappuccino]

If I practised Metta … I would rarely disagree with your Eternalistic views.

I've said Nirvana is everlasting


because that's the truth

[cappuccino]

perhaps Metta is too advanced