Travel Advice

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truthseeker135
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Travel Advice

Post by truthseeker135 »

I planned to travel to Forest Dhamma Monastery on Friday. Now that the coronavirus is in my state I don't know if I should go or not. There has been no confirmed cases in my immediate area, but fear that since I go to a big school in a transit hub city that it could be in my area.My school has cancelled classes as a precaution, but said that there has been no confirmed cases at the school. Since you can be a carrier for the virus and be asymptomatic would you recommend not going in order to prevent the spread of the virus even though there is no real way to tell if the virus is nearby or I am a carrier for it? I am not scared of getting the virus( if its my kamma then I have to accept it) but do not want to spread it to others especially the elderly monks and laypeople at the monastery.
Last edited by truthseeker135 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Travel Advise

Post by Sam Vara »

truthseeker135 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:04 pm I planned to travel to Forest Dhamma Monastery on Friday. Now that the coronavirus is in my state I don't know if I should go or not. There has been no confirmed cases in my immediate area, but fear that since I go to a big school in a transit hub city that it could be in my area.My school has cancelled classes as a precaution, but said that there has been no confirmed cases at the school. Since you can be a carrier for the virus and be asymptomatic would you recommend not going in order to prevent the spread of the virus even though there is no real way to tell if the virus is nearby or I am a carrier for it? I am not scared of getting the virus( if its my kamma then I have to accept it) but do not want to spread it to others especially the elderly monks and laypeople at the monastery.
Why don't you ring and ask them if they are happy to still accept visitors? Or they may say on their website.

(Edit) Amravati in the UK have advice for visitors on their home page.
SarathW
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by SarathW »

Practice at home.
cut down all nonessential travel.
In my opinion, we have not seen the bottom of this problem as of yet.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
truthseeker135
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by truthseeker135 »

SarathW wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:52 pm Practice at home.
cut down all nonessential travel.
In my opinion, we have not seen the bottom of this problem as of yet.
Yeah I'm starting to realize it would be incredibly selfish if I went if I even had a thought that I might have it. It would be better for everyone if I stayed home for now. Can't help but feel a little disappointment, but it is what it is.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Just go! This is mara giving you another reason not to follow the path!
If you don't go now, when? Several years away? Because that's how long epidemiologists are saying covid19 will be here for.

Right now the actual odds of spreading the virus are vanishingly small, one in several million. Most of the reaction is based on fear and hysteria.

I'm flying to Australia this weekend, to stay 4 months at Wat Buddha Dhamma, to help rebuild after the bushfires. The coronavirus is not a factor in my decision.

Go go! Just go.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Another point is even if you did have the coronavirus, which is astoundingly unlikely, it's good to get it now rather than later because at the moment the hospitals are under no pressure, whereas later there'll be tens of thousands of people cramming every corridor and room in the hospital.
Get in early!
truthseeker135
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by truthseeker135 »

Unfortunately, I just cancelled my tickets and emailed Ajaan DIck. Due to the size of my school, one of the biggest in New Jersey, I believe there is a high possibility of someone having it here and a high possibility of it having spread throughout the school. Also there is an unconfirmed rumor that there is someone with the virus at the university hospital. Therefore, I cannot risk traveling and spreading it to the members of the monastic community. I am fine if I get it, but I would not be able to forgive myself if I spread it to someone there and they ended up dying because of it. Ajaan Dick is in his seventies and elderly people are more at risk for serious illness. Luckily, due to my classes being moved online I will have plenty of time to visit the new Buddhist Insights monastery in West Orange, NJ after this blows over. Trust me this was a very difficult decision to make and I'm not happy about it, but I could not risk spreading the virus.
SarathW
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by SarathW »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:54 pm Another point is even if you did have the coronavirus, which is astoundingly unlikely, it's good to get it now rather than later because at the moment the hospitals are under no pressure, whereas later there'll be tens of thousands of people cramming every corridor and room in the hospital.
Get in early!
James you are misinformed.
You can get the virus for the second time as well.
Buddha never asked to risk your life to practice Dhamma.
All the problem of Italy started with two Chinees tourists.

PS: It appears that you can't get infected twice. :shrug:
Last edited by SarathW on Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by JamesTheGiant »

truthseeker135 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:11 pm Unfortunately, I just cancelled my tickets and emailed Ajaan DIck.
Oh well, maybe next time.
Just remember next time, there's ALWAYS something that stops you from going to the monastery or ordaining. Always.

I've known people who've met the woman of their dreams a few weeks before leaving to ordain.
Another who has suffered a serious accident in the month before, and thus was prevented due to health reasons.
Another who had family trouble and had to stay to support them.
And another who was debt-free and actually at the monastery, but who then had to pay for something personal on his credit card, (his insurance or car repair or something) and couldn't ordain because of that slight debt, he returned home to work for a few months to pay off the card, and life got complicated and he never returned to ordain.

I'm not saying it's an actual plot by an actual real evil Mara, but the opportunity to ordain comes so rarely. All the circumstances have to align, with both luck and planning and life.

Don't miss the chance next time!
MettaDevPrac
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by MettaDevPrac »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:49 pmRight now the actual odds of spreading the virus are vanishingly small, one in several million.
James, can you identify source of this statistic? It seems contradicted by available public health information.
For example,
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ssion.html
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by JamesTheGiant »

MettaDevPrac wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:55 pm James, can you identify source of this statistic?
The number of current infections, compared to world population, combined with the low rate of transmission. Currently the rate of increase is about 1.21.
Yes eventually millions and millions of people will have the virus, and probably millions will die, but right now the chance of any single random individual having the virus is vanishingly small.
MettaDevPrac
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by MettaDevPrac »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:05 pm
MettaDevPrac wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:55 pm James, can you identify source of this statistic?
The number of current infections, compared to world population, combined with the low rate of transmission. Currently the rate of increase is about 1.21.
Yes eventually millions and millions of people will have the virus, and probably millions will die, but right now the chance of any single random individual having the virus is vanishingly small.
Ah. But a person is not a world population. The chance of every individual is different; the chance of transmission by an exposed person is not the same as the chance of transmission by (or to) an unexposed person.

Additionally, transmission chances can be affected by behavior, by both the exposed and unexposed. This is the reason for travel advisories and bans, and public health advice on washing hands, etc.
- MettaDevPrac
truthseeker135
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by truthseeker135 »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:46 pm
truthseeker135 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:11 pm Unfortunately, I just cancelled my tickets and emailed Ajaan DIck.
Oh well, maybe next time.
Just remember next time, there's ALWAYS something that stops you from going to the monastery or ordaining. Always.
Thanks for the advice James. I am well aware of Mara's tricks to keep one from ordaining and I am intent on ordaining as soon as possible. I still intend on going to Forest Dhamma or Thailand in May or June. This trip was just for the week of my spring break so I'm not missing out on much. It's unfortunate, but rather be safe than sorry.
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mikenz66
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by mikenz66 »

Here's a graph showing the exponential growth in Italy, etc. (Log scale, so a straight line is exponential).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... weeks.html

Image
Here's the coronavirus data, overlayed with the dates offset by the amounts shown. One of these countries is not like the rest. Everyone else will be Italy in 9-14 days time.
China, South Korea, etc are no longer in an exponential growth phase. Italy's lockdown should bring it under control. The caption is a bit alarmist, but here we're talking about going to on-line classes in the next few weeks.

:heart:
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SarathW
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Re: Travel Advice

Post by SarathW »

It is a huge percentage!
If unchecked, Just two people can infect one million people in 50 days assuming it maintain the same rate of 30%.
Also assume all the one million people are in close contact with each other.
Last edited by SarathW on Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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