Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

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SarathW
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Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by SarathW » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:55 pm

I had a discussion with a friend and he said natural sugar and the artificial sugar the same.
His argument was that if both got the same atomic bond structure it is the same.
I personally do not believe this, but I could not convince him.
Do you agree with this? If not why you do not agree with it?
Say for instance water is CO2.
So with this formula, you can make artificial water.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:09 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:55 pm
Say for instance water is CO2.
So with this formula, you can make artificial water.
I think you should avoid arguing about chemistry and science, if you don't know anything about it.

SarathW
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by SarathW » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:43 pm

Well if science tells me that natural sugar and artificial sugar the same, I should question it.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Kim OHara
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:23 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:43 pm
Well if science tells me that natural sugar and artificial sugar the same, I should question it.
I agree with James. I would have given you the same advice, but extended it along these lines:
If someone says something you doubt, you can certainly question it, but only so far as you can verify it to your own satisfaction. And in the end, you have to accept the authority of someone who does know the subject.
In the days of internet and wikipedia, you can do your own research as far as you like, but you really have to stop when you don't understand the answers any more. In sugar chemistry, that may be when you see there are lots of different kinds of sugar, all with their own formulas, e.g. https://www.thoughtco.com/chemical-form ... gar-604003, or when the answers start talking about chirality or isotopes or ... I don't know.
Personally, I find wikipedia the best reference for subjects I know a bit about - and I try not to argue about anything I don't know anything about. :thinking:
Oh, and random people on internet discussion boards are not the best reference for anything, especially for anything not connected to the topic of the board.

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Kim

SarathW
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:07 am

This way of approaching knowledge is some thing like we say "Just accept Tipitak" "it is the authority".
I am sure we have someone here can give bit more info for my question.
Actually this question came along the way with whether Statin is a safe medicine to control cholesterol.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Srilankaputra
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by Srilankaputra » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:53 am

Hi Sarath,

The problem is, the molecules of sugar might be the same but what other residual chemicals remain with the artificial sugar. It is very difficult to 100% purify a substance and prohibitively expensive to try.
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Volo
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by Volo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:39 am

Although it is possible to synthesize sugar (sucrose) in the laboratory, it is highly unlikely you've ever tasted or even seen it, because its chemical synthesis would be too expensive for the food industry. All sugar we find in the food products comes from natural sources like sugar cane or sugar beet.

What is usually meant by artificial sugar is not sugar but substances of various structures which have sweet taste (they are obviously different from the natural sugar). If we compare refined sugar (which is pure sucrose) from natural sources and sucrose chemically synthesized they are the same (some impurities would be different, but nowadays it is not too difficult to achieve very high purity of the compound).

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Kim OHara
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:38 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:07 am
This way of approaching knowledge is some thing like we say "Just accept Tipitak" "it is the authority".
No. What I said was that we reach the limits of what it is possible for us to learn and then have to stop and say, "As far as I can find out, such-and-such is the truth," or something like that. I am not saying that we should not question new information or ideas. I am saying that none of us can be a world-class expert in every field of knowledge, and we need to recognise our limits.
I am sure we have someone here can give bit more info for my question.
I said it before and I will say it again: random people on internet discussion boards are not the best reference for anything, especially for anything not connected to the topic of the board.
On this board we have a good range of expertise in non-Buddhist subjects but we don't cover all subjects and (more importantly) you have no way of assessing the expertise of anyone who does attempt to answer your question. You might as well walk down your favourite shopping street asking every person you meet ... and I'm sure you know how well that would work. :toilet:

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mikenz66
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:44 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:43 pm
Well if science tells me that natural sugar and artificial sugar the same, I should question it.
Well, it's good to be cautious and check things, but I'm not sure what your point is. Is there some issue about sugar that you want to discuss?

A molecule of sucrose has 12 carbon atoms, 22 hydrogen atoms, and 11 oxygen atoms in this particular arrangement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose
Image
Every sucrose molecule behaves exactly the same as any other sucrose molecule (as far as we know).

As others have explained, if you have sucrose that is synthesised, or even sucrose purified from different plants, there may be small amounts of other substances that would make it a little different. As you know, you can buy "brown sugar" that is less refined than "white sugar", as it contains significant amounts of molasses. But that doesn't mean that the sucrose molecules themselves are different in these different products.

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SarathW
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:36 pm

Is the sugar content in a teaspoon of sugar and a teaspoon of honey the same?
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mikenz66
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:45 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:36 pm
Is the sugar content in a teaspoon of sugar and a teaspoon of honey the same?
It's depends what you mean.
"Table Sugar" contains sucrose. Honey contains fructose and glucose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey
However,the term "sugar" is also used to cover all of the sweet-tasting monosaccharides (such as fructose and glucose) and disaccharides (such as sucrose). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar

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Mr Man
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Re: Are atifical and the syntehetic the same?

Post by Mr Man » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:32 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:55 pm
I had a discussion with a friend and he said natural sugar and the artificial sugar the same.
His argument was that if both got the same atomic bond structure it is the same.
I personally do not believe this, but I could not convince him.
Do you agree with this? If not why you do not agree with it?
Say for instance water is CO2.
So with this formula, you can make artificial water.
It depends on the criteria that you are using. If we are talking about the texture, for example, they are not the same. Things can be both the same and different.

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