Veganism: a host of issues.

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
Post Reply
User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:53 am

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:47 am
If you want to be suicidal to save the world, that's your own agenda, but what I don't get is why these suicidal people bring kids into this world knowing that that they will harm the environment and other beings just by taking up resources in order to exist. Very hypocritical.
See Nirvana fallacy description above. If you are going to make arguments, at least try to make reasonable ones.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:54 am

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:52 am
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:40 am
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:39 am


Or, you just care about not murdering sentient beings. To only care about yourself, and not others is the very definition of selfishness. It's perfectly appropriate for feed kids vegan.
Then you shouldn't leave your house if buying meat is murder. Just your existence is killing many beings, just using water and electricity and using your car.
And that's what you call being unreasonable. Specifically, the Nirvana fallacy, no pun intended.
Nirvana fallacy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The nirvana fallacy is the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives.[1] It can also refer to the tendency to assume that there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the perfect solution fallacy.

By creating a false dichotomy that presents one option which is obviously advantageous—while at the same time being completely implausible—a person using the nirvana fallacy can attack any opposing idea because it is imperfect. Under this fallacy, the choice is not between real world solutions; it is, rather, a choice between one realistic achievable possibility and another unrealistic solution that could in some way be "better".
To only care about yourself is to be enlightened
Nonsense. Tathagata has sympathy for living beings.
Besides, why bring kids into this world if you care about not murdering other beings? You know their existence will result in that. Isn't that selfish to bring kids into this world according to your logic?
Many vegans are also anti-natalism for a similar reasons.
The Buddha didn't want to teach the Dhamma until Brahma begged him, most Buddhas are Paeccheka Buddhas. Turns out being altruistic (sacrificing oneself) is not Buddhist. One can help others AFTER they've helped themselves first.

Yes, all vegans should be anti-natalist otherwise they contradict their own logic and beliefs and are hypocrites.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:00 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:54 am

The Buddha didn't want to teach the Dhamma until Brahma begged him, most Buddhas are Paeccheka Buddhas. Turns out being altruistic (sacrificing oneself) is not Buddhist.
Luckily, following a proper vegan diet, one doesn't have to sacrifice anything.
Yes, all vegans should be anti-natalist otherwise they contradict their own logic and beliefs and are hypocrites.
All all Buddhists, who aim to cultivate karuna and metta as the Buddha himself taught, who think it's perfectly fine to only care about yourself, contradict their own beliefs and are hypocrites

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:03 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:00 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:54 am

The Buddha didn't want to teach the Dhamma until Brahma begged him, most Buddhas are Paeccheka Buddhas. Turns out being altruistic (sacrificing oneself) is not Buddhist.
Luckily, following a proper vegan diet, one doesn't have to sacrifice anything.
Except for their health
Yes, all vegans should be anti-natalist otherwise they contradict their own logic and beliefs and are hypocrites.
All all Buddhists, who aim to cultivate karuna and metta as the Buddha himself taught, who think it's perfectly fine to only care about yourself, contradict their own beliefs and are hypocrites

The Buddha has made it quite clear that one should fix themselves before others, he also said as long as he didn't attain all the jhanas and ultimate knowledge he did not declare himself enlightened, i.e. he stayed humble and had no desire to help others not only before his enlightenment, but also after his enlightenment, until Brahma begged to him.

Also, as for your "Nirvana fallacy", you can apply the same thing to "buying meat is murder" logic.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:03 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:00 pm


Luckily, following a proper vegan diet, one doesn't have to sacrifice anything.
Except for their health
Nonsense.
The Buddha has made it quite clear that one should fix themselves before others, he also said as long as he didn't attain all the jhanas and ultimate knowledge he did not declare himself enlightened, i.e. he stayed humble and had no desire to help others not only before his enlightenment, but also after his enlightenment, until Brahma begged to him.
The Buddha made it quite clear that one should avoid causing harm to others.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm

The Buddha made it quite clear that one should avoid causing harm to others.
Which is why he allowed monks to eat meat.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:10 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm

The Buddha made it quite clear that one should avoid causing harm to others.
Which is why he allowed monks to eat meat.
And prohibited monks from accepting that which was killed on their behalf.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:11 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:10 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm

The Buddha made it quite clear that one should avoid causing harm to others.
Which is why he allowed monks to eat meat.
And prohibited monks from accepting that which was killed on their behalf.
Fortunantly buying meat at a grocery store is not killed for ones behalf.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:12 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:11 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:10 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:08 pm


Which is why he allowed monks to eat meat.
And prohibited monks from accepting that which was killed on their behalf.
Fortunantly buying meat at a grocery store is not killed for ones behalf.
Fortunately, monks don't buy meat at grocery stores.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:14 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:12 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:11 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:10 pm


And prohibited monks from accepting that which was killed on their behalf.
Fortunantly buying meat at a grocery store is not killed for ones behalf.
Fortunately, monks don't buy meat at grocery stores.
Fortunately, lay people can buy meat at grocery stores. Like for example in the suttas, where butchers set up shop at crossroads where they butcher the animals for anyone who crosses and not for an individual specifically.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:15 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:14 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:12 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:11 pm


Fortunantly buying meat at a grocery store is not killed for ones behalf.
Fortunately, monks don't buy meat at grocery stores.
Fortunately, lay people can buy meat at grocery stores. Like for example in the suttas, where butchers set up shop at crossroads where they butcher the animals for anyone who crosses and not for an individual specifically.
Fortunately, lay people have a choice in what to eat, unlike monks.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:18 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:15 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:14 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:12 pm


Fortunately, monks don't buy meat at grocery stores.
Fortunately, lay people can buy meat at grocery stores. Like for example in the suttas, where butchers set up shop at crossroads where they butcher the animals for anyone who crosses and not for an individual specifically.
Fortunately, lay people have a choice in what to eat, unlike monks.
Fortunately, ariyas are purer than putajanas, if they're allowed to eat meat, so can lay people. Otherwise the Buddha would have banned meat entirely.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:18 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:15 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:14 pm


Fortunately, lay people can buy meat at grocery stores. Like for example in the suttas, where butchers set up shop at crossroads where they butcher the animals for anyone who crosses and not for an individual specifically.
Fortunately, lay people have a choice in what to eat, unlike monks.
Fortunately, ariyas are purer than putajanas, if they're allowed to eat meat, so can lay people. Otherwise the Buddha would have banned meat entirely.
Fortunately, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a layperson choosing to eat a plant based diet. And Fortunately, the barbaric practices of modern day animal agriculture, that exist today, didn't exist during the Buddha's time.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by budo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:31 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:18 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:15 pm


Fortunately, lay people have a choice in what to eat, unlike monks.
Fortunately, ariyas are purer than putajanas, if they're allowed to eat meat, so can lay people. Otherwise the Buddha would have banned meat entirely.
Fortunately, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a layperson choosing to eat a plant based diet. And Fortunately, the barbaric practices of modern day animal agriculture, that exist today, didn't exist during the Buddha's time.
Fortunately, one does not have to buy factory farmed meat to eat meat :)

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Veganism: a host of issues.

Post by seeker242 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:10 pm

budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:31 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm
budo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:18 pm


Fortunately, ariyas are purer than putajanas, if they're allowed to eat meat, so can lay people. Otherwise the Buddha would have banned meat entirely.
Fortunately, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a layperson choosing to eat a plant based diet. And Fortunately, the barbaric practices of modern day animal agriculture, that exist today, didn't exist during the Buddha's time.
Fortunately, one does not have to buy factory farmed meat to eat meat :)
Fortunately, one does not have to buy any kind.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests