Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

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Aloka
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by Aloka » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:02 pm

Hi Polo,

The part of your above post which has a quote about bowel movements etc which is below the short sentence of mine which you quoted :
(I'm vegetarian myself )
was not written by me. I think you've made a mistake with the formatting in your post.


:anjali:

.

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seeker242
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by seeker242 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:59 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:37 pm

He died of a stroke, the official canadian source doesn't mention cardiovascular disease.
A stroke is a result of having cardiovascular disease.
Lastly, I'm not going to entertain your goal post shifting and thread derailing to disprove your ignorant statement regarding cholestrol and heart health. Go learn the difference between the different types of LDL and artery insulin caused damage and come back when you know better.
Or, you could come back when you learn what cardiovascular disease is. No, beef fat is not a good thing to be eating a lot of, unless you don't mind dying of a heart attack or stroke. It's no secret that the longest lived people in the world eat very little, if any, beef fat. And the sample size in the studies of those people is much, much larger than 1. A sample size of 1 is so poor that it's basically irrelevant.

budo
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by budo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:55 am

seeker242 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:59 pm
budo wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:37 pm

He died of a stroke, the official canadian source doesn't mention cardiovascular disease.
A stroke is a result of having cardiovascular disease.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Ischemic strokes are caused by atherosclerosis and mainly blood clots, which means the blood is over-coagulated, hence the use of blood thinners.

There's also many types of strokes, such as a heat stroke. There is no information what kind of stroke Steffanson had.

He could have had a hemorragic stroke, which is very different, with different causes.

You have no idea which type of stroke he had, so you're spreading misinformation.

Stefansson lived to 82 in the 1960s, he may have even been a pipe tobacco smoker as well as he had dark teeth, so you know nothing about him.
Lastly, I'm not going to entertain your goal post shifting and thread derailing to disprove your ignorant statement regarding cholestrol and heart health. Go learn the difference between the different types of LDL and artery insulin caused damage and come back when you know better.
Or, you could come back when you learn what cardiovascular disease is. No, beef fat is not a good thing to be eating a lot of, unless you don't mind dying of a heart attack or stroke. It's no secret that the longest lived people in the world eat very little, if any, beef fat. And the sample size in the studies of those people is much, much larger than 1. A sample size of 1 is so poor that it's basically irrelevant.
Old outdated nonsense spread by Ancel Keys in the 50s which has been disproven and propgated today by vegan propaganda.

Plant fats like corn oil, which is high in omega 6 does in fact cause damage to arteries.

Go study how corralative observational studies work in nutrition before spreading bogus claims..

The only 2 countries at the top of the life expectancy list are Iceland and Japan at 83.5 years, go look up their cuisine, it's filled with sheep heads, fish, wagyu beef, puffin birds, shark, whale, etc.. And Steffanson lived until 82.

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robertk
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by robertk » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:52 am

I prefer Pork, it has a higher fat content and the taste of the fat is unbeatable.
Thailand- is one of the best countries to buy it right on the street.

I fly into Bangkok next week. Yumm.
steam-roast-pork-belly__hero.jpg

polo
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by polo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:01 am

robertk wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:52 am
I prefer Pork, it has a higher fat content and the taste of the fat is unbeatable.
Thailand- is one of the best countries to buy it right on the street.

I fly into Bangkok next week. Yumm.steam-roast-pork-belly__hero.jpg
Please whoever you are don't post a picture like that because it's sort of like pornography. When I look at that piece of roasted pork I just salivated. This picture creates a desire and when desire is not fulfilled it caused suffering.
Do the Thais put too much salt in this kind of roasted pork? In Malaysia this kind of roasted pork is always too salty to my taste, far too salty I would say.

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robertk
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by robertk » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:16 am

polo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:01 am
robertk wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:52 am
I prefer Pork, it has a higher fat content and the taste of the fat is unbeatable.
Thailand- is one of the best countries to buy it right on the street.

I fly into Bangkok next week. Yumm.steam-roast-pork-belly__hero.jpg
Please whoever you are don't post a picture like that because it's sort of like pornography. When I look at that piece of roasted pork I just salivated. This picture creates a desire and when desire is not fulfilled it caused suffering.
Do the Thais put too much salt in this kind of roasted pork? In Malaysia this kind of roasted pork is always too salty to my taste, far too salty I would say.
heh.
Well it is salted but usually not excessively. I like some salt in the tropics.

polo
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by polo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:48 am

Aloka wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:02 pm
Hi Polo,

The part of your above post which has a quote about bowel movements etc which is below the short sentence of mine which you quoted :
(I'm vegetarian myself )
was not written by me. I think you've made a mistake with the formatting in your post.



.
Sorry Aloka, my mind must be foggy due to constipation. I ate some bananas and it helped a little bit. Now, I am thinking of drinking two tablespoon of olive oil perhaps that would do the trick.
May be 3 tablespoons would be better to get a smooth movement of the bowel.
Anyone tried that before?

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seeker242
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by seeker242 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:23 pm

budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:55 am
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Ischemic strokes are caused by atherosclerosis and mainly blood clots, which means the blood is over-coagulated, hence the use of blood thinners.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Atherosclerosis = cardiovascular disease.
There's also many types of strokes, such as a heat stroke. There is no information what kind of stroke Steffanson had.

He could have had a hemorragic stroke, which is very different, with different causes.

You have no idea which type of stroke he had, so you're spreading misinformation.
There are many types of strokes and close to 90% of them are Ischemic strokes. So essentially, there's a 90% chance that it's not misinformation. And you declare it as misinformation, with essentially a 10% chance of being correct. Ischemic stroke is a quite safe assumption.
Stefansson lived to 82 in the 1960s, he may have even been a pipe tobacco smoker as well as he had dark teeth, so you know nothing about him.
That's right, Stefansson is completely irrelevant.
Old outdated nonsense spread by Ancel Keys in the 50s which has been disproven and propgated today by vegan propaganda.
Saying so doesn't make it so. And it has nothing to do with Ancel Keys.
Plant fats like corn oil, which is high in omega 6 does in fact cause damage to arteries.
Irrelevant. Plant fats have nothing to do with beef fat.
The only 2 countries at the top of the life expectancy list are Iceland and Japan at 83.5 years, go look up their cuisine, it's filled with sheep heads, fish, wagyu beef, puffin birds, shark, whale, etc..
Countries are also irrelevant. The groups of people with the longest lives have a particular cuisine, and it includes minimal, if any, beef fat. For example, Okinawans, Seventh day adventists, Sardinians, etc,
And Steffanson lived until 82.
Again, Steffanson is irrelevant. Any sample size of 1 is irrelevant.

budo
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by budo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:19 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:23 pm
budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:55 am
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Ischemic strokes are caused by atherosclerosis and mainly blood clots, which means the blood is over-coagulated, hence the use of blood thinners.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Atherosclerosis = cardiovascular disease.
Keep doubling down.

Arteriosclerosis = arteries, not heart. Arteriosclerosis can also lead to heart disease, it's not necessarily heart disease.
There's also many types of strokes, such as a heat stroke. There is no information what kind of stroke Steffanson had.

He could have had a hemorragic stroke, which is very different, with different causes.

You have no idea which type of stroke he had, so you're spreading misinformation.
There are many types of strokes and close to 90% of them are Ischemic strokes. So essentially, there's a 90% chance that it's not misinformation. And you declare it as misinformation, with essentially a 10% chance of being correct. Ischemic stroke is a quite safe assumption.
And Ischemic stroke means:

"Ischemic Stroke (Blood Clots) Occurs when a blood vessel supplying blood to the brain is obstructed. It accounts for 87 percent of all strokes"
Stefansson lived to 82 in the 1960s, he may have even been a pipe tobacco smoker as well as he had dark teeth, so you know nothing about him.
That's right, Stefansson is completely irrelevant.
And so are clueless vegans
Old outdated nonsense spread by Ancel Keys in the 50s which has been disproven and propgated today by vegan propaganda.
Saying so doesn't make it so. And it has nothing to do with Ancel Keys.
Plant fats like corn oil, which is high in omega 6 does in fact cause damage to arteries.
Irrelevant. Plant fats have nothing to do with beef fat.
The only 2 countries at the top of the life expectancy list are Iceland and Japan at 83.5 years, go look up their cuisine, it's filled with sheep heads, fish, wagyu beef, puffin birds, shark, whale, etc..
Countries are also irrelevant. The groups of people with the longest lives have a particular cuisine, and it includes minimal, if any, beef fat. For example, Okinawans, Seventh day adventists, Sardinians, etc,
And Steffanson lived until 82.
Again, Steffanson is irrelevant. Any sample size of 1 is irrelevant.

All non-sense, latest research shows those "Blue zones" countries you listed have long lifespan because they're near the ocean, thus contributing to "micro-circulation", this has nothing to do with consuming beef fat.

PLANT FATS (Polyunsaturated Omega 6 Fat) CAUSE LDL which causes Arteriosclerosis, not SATURATED FAT (animal fat, which is beef fat).

From Harvard:
A handful of recent reports have muddied the link between saturated fat and heart disease. One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying- ... d-and-good

and
Omega-6 vegetable oils as a driver of coronary heart disease: the oxidized linoleic acid hypothesis
The omega-6 fat linoleic acid should not be confused with conjugated linoleic acid found in pastured animal foods.

- Linoleic acid is the most abundant fat found in atherosclerotic plaques, and this has been known since at least the 1960s.50

- Oxidised linoleic acid but not oxidised oleic acid is found in atherosclerotic plaques.51

- Consuming more linoleic acid increases the amount of linoleic acid in complicated aortic plaques.52

- An excess dietary intake of linoleic acid causes greater endothelial activation compared with an excess of saturated fat.56

- Linoleic acid can activate vascular endothelial cells, a critical step for inducing atherosclerosis.57 58

- Linoleic acid in adipose tissue and platelets positively associates with CAD, whereas EPA and DHA in platelets are inversely correlated with CAD.3
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898.full

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seeker242
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by seeker242 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:59 pm

budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:19 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:23 pm


You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Atherosclerosis = cardiovascular disease.
Keep doubling down.

Arteriosclerosis = arteries, not heart. Arteriosclerosis can also lead to heart disease, it's not necessarily heart disease.
Keep doubling down. Cardiovascular disease encompasses all of the above.

Definition of cardiovascular diseases:

Cardiovascular diseases are a group of disorders of the heart and blood vessels and include:

coronary heart disease: disease of the blood vessels supplying the heart muscle;
cerebrovascular disease: disease of the blood vessels supplying the brain;
peripheral arterial disease: disease of blood vessels supplying the arms and legs;
rheumatic heart disease: damage to the heart muscle and heart valves from rheumatic fever, caused by streptococcal bacteria;
congenital heart disease: malformations of heart structure existing at birth;
deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism: blood clots in the leg veins, which can dislodge and move to the heart and lungs.

Heart attacks and strokes are usually acute events and are mainly caused by a blockage that prevents blood from flowing to the heart or brain. The most common reason is a build-up of fatty deposits on the inner walls of the blood vessels. Strokes can be caused by bleeding from a blood vessel in the brain or by blood clots. http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topic ... r-diseases
And Ischemic stroke means:

"Ischemic Stroke (Blood Clots) Occurs when a blood vessel supplying blood to the brain is obstructed. It accounts for 87 percent of all strokes"
AKA: Cardiovascular disease....
And so are clueless vegans
Good argument. Very reasonable. :lol:
All non-sense, latest research shows those "Blue zones" countries you listed have long lifespan because they're near the ocean, thus contributing to "micro-circulation", this has nothing to do with consuming beef fat.
Nope. Micro-circulation was an additional factor identified, not a replacement of the other identified factors. The idea that it replaces them is what is nonsense.

From Harvard:

A handful of recent reports have muddied the link between saturated fat and heart disease. One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying- ... d-and-good
And then the part of the quote from that article that you conveniently left out.
but that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may indeed reduce risk of heart disease.

Two other major studies narrowed the prescription slightly, concluding that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils or high-fiber carbohydrates is the best bet for reducing the risk of heart disease, but replacing saturated fat with highly processed carbohydrates could do the opposite.
Omega-6 vegetable oils as a driver of coronary heart disease: the oxidized linoleic acid hypothesis
The fact that vegetable oil is a driver of heart disease is irrelevant. It's nonsensical to claim there is only 1 driver of heart disease.

budo
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by budo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:18 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:59 pm
budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:19 pm
Keep doubling down.

Arteriosclerosis = arteries, not heart. Arteriosclerosis can also lead to heart disease, it's not necessarily heart disease.
Keep doubling down. Cardiovascular disease encompasses all of the above.

Definition of cardiovascular diseases:

Cardiovascular diseases are a group of disorders of the heart and blood vessels and include:

coronary heart disease: disease of the blood vessels supplying the heart muscle;
cerebrovascular disease: disease of the blood vessels supplying the brain;
peripheral arterial disease: disease of blood vessels supplying the arms and legs;
rheumatic heart disease: damage to the heart muscle and heart valves from rheumatic fever, caused by streptococcal bacteria;
congenital heart disease: malformations of heart structure existing at birth;
deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism: blood clots in the leg veins, which can dislodge and move to the heart and lungs.

Heart attacks and strokes are usually acute events and are mainly caused by a blockage that prevents blood from flowing to the heart or brain. The most common reason is a build-up of fatty deposits on the inner walls of the blood vessels. Strokes can be caused by bleeding from a blood vessel in the brain or by blood clots. http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topic ... r-diseases
And Ischemic stroke means:

"Ischemic Stroke (Blood Clots) Occurs when a blood vessel supplying blood to the brain is obstructed. It accounts for 87 percent of all strokes"
AKA: Cardiovascular disease....
And so are clueless vegans
Good argument. Very reasonable. :lol:
All non-sense, latest research shows those "Blue zones" countries you listed have long lifespan because they're near the ocean, thus contributing to "micro-circulation", this has nothing to do with consuming beef fat.
Nope. Micro-circulation was an additional factor identified, not a replacement of the other identified factors. The idea that it replaces them is what is nonsense.

From Harvard:

A handful of recent reports have muddied the link between saturated fat and heart disease. One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying- ... d-and-good
And then the part of the quote from that article that you conveniently left out.
but that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat may indeed reduce risk of heart disease.

Two other major studies narrowed the prescription slightly, concluding that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils or high-fiber carbohydrates is the best bet for reducing the risk of heart disease, but replacing saturated fat with highly processed carbohydrates could do the opposite.
Omega-6 vegetable oils as a driver of coronary heart disease: the oxidized linoleic acid hypothesis
The fact that vegetable oil is a driver of heart disease is irrelevant. It's nonsensical to claim there is only 1 driver of heart disease.
Strokes != CVD

We're discussing strokes within the context of Steffanson, not CVD.. So again while CVD is related to Arteriosclerosis, strokes are not always an effect of CVD.

https://www.strokeassociation.org/en/ab ... sks-relate

"May" is the keyword, which turns out is not true since other studies like the one I posted show that Linoleic acid is the main contributor.

But as you said if everything other than beef fat is irrelevant, including vegetable oils, then the argument is settled by Harvard.

NOT enough evidence.
From Harvard:

A handful of recent reports have muddied the link between saturated fat and heart disease. One meta-analysis of 21 studies said that there was not enough evidence to conclude that saturated fat increases the risk of heart disease

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying- ... d-and-good
So there you have it, like you said, anything other than beef fat is irrelevant, so case closed. Not enough evidence.

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seeker242
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by seeker242 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:46 pm

budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:18 pm

So there you have it, like you said, anything other than beef fat is irrelevant, so case closed. Not enough evidence.
I noticed that you left out the 2nd half of the quote, yet again. Interesting. Here is another snippet from the Harvard article you posted.
Eating polyunsaturated fats in place of saturated fats or highly refined carbohydrates reduces harmful LDL cholesterol and improves the cholesterol profile. It also lowers triglycerides.
I guess the Harvard people are just a bunch of clueless vegans. Yea, that sounds reasonable. :rofl:

budo
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by budo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:48 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:46 pm
budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:18 pm

So there you have it, like you said, anything other than beef fat is irrelevant, so case closed. Not enough evidence.
I noticed that you left out the 2nd half of the quote, yet again. Interesting. Here is another snippet from the Harvard article you posted.
Eating polyunsaturated fats in place of saturated fats or highly refined carbohydrates reduces harmful LDL cholesterol and improves the cholesterol profile. It also lowers triglycerides.
I guess the Harvard people are just a bunch of clueless vegans. Yea, that sounds reasonable. :rofl:
Polyunsaturated fats aren't only "vegan", lol. Fish fat and grass fed eggs are high in polyunsaturated Omega 3, which is DHA and EPA, and removes the LDL plaques which I cited in my previous post. All that quote is saying is that saturated fats are neutral, but Omega 3 is positive. So yeah, you are clueless. And btw, plant fats are mostly Polyunsaturated Omega 6, which is the harmful kind.

But like you said, IRRELEVANT to beef fat, which according to Harvard, there is not enough evidence that it is harmful.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by budo » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:00 pm

For anyone else reading this who wants to sift through the vegan propaganda spewed by forum users on here, here are the facts:

Saturated fat - neutral
Monounsaturated fat - neutral
Polyunsaturated Omega 6 - Harmful - and found in most processed vegetable oils except for plants that are naturally high in monounsaturated like olive oil, or plants high in saturated fat like coconut oil.
Trans fats - Harmful
Polyunsaturated Omega 3 - Positive/Beneficial

If you have old LDL plaques in your body, then eating wild fish or free range eggs high in DHA/EPA (Omega 3) will reduce those plaques. The main culprit is non-conjugated Linoleic Acid found in plants, and not the conjugated Linoleic Acid found in animals.

https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898.full
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161 ... 108.191627

Lastly, keep in mind all nutritional studies are observational and correlative, so nothing is set in stone.

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Idappaccayata
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Re: Is it ok to eat quite a lot of beef fat?

Post by Idappaccayata » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:22 pm

budo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:00 pm
For anyone else reading this who wants to sift through the vegan propaganda spewed by forum users on here, here are the facts:

Saturated fat - neutral
Monounsaturated fat - neutral
Polyunsaturated Omega 6 - Harmful - and found in most processed vegetable oils except for plants that are naturally high in monounsaturated like olive oil, or plants high in saturated fat like coconut oil.
Trans fats - Harmful
Polyunsaturated Omega 3 - Positive/Beneficial

If you have old LDL plaques in your body, then eating wild fish or free range eggs high in DHA/EPA (Omega 3) will reduce those plaques. The main culprit is non-conjugated Linoleic Acid found in plants, and not the conjugated Linoleic Acid found in animals.

https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898.full
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161 ... 108.191627

Lastly, keep in mind all nutritional studies are observational and correlative, so nothing is set in stone.
I'm not sure what your irrational fear of veganism has to do with this. It's pretty easy to be a vegan and avoid high Omega 6 oils.
A dying man can only rely upon his wisdom, if he developed it. Wisdom is not dependent upon any phenomenon originated upon six senses. It is developed on the basis of the discernment of the same. That’s why when one’s senses start to wither and die, the knowledge of their nature remains unaffected. When there is no wisdom, there will be despair, in the face of death.

- Ajahn Nyanamoli Thero

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