Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 2230
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Bundokji » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:57 pm

I think there are certain social assumptions that contributes to depression and anxiety, and if the dangers in them is seen, this might help spare people a lot of stress and pain.

The first assumption is that happiness is somehow more original (not only preferable) state of mind than sadness. If one is sad, there must be something wrong with him! This could result in the proliferation of feelings and the natural sadness is seen as an enemy or an alien to get rid of (which more often than not prolongs the process instead of letting it take its natural course).

Another thing is being results oriented. Measuring success or failure based on results is causing people a lot of stress and pain. Today, the official results for high school in my country are out, and there are a lot of celebrations in the streets. My niece had good marks and the family is celebrating. I am wondering how this celebration and joy would turn into sadness when she will face inevitable failures in the future. Her family used to motivate her by telling her that if you put enough effort this year, it will bring you comfort for the rest of your life (what a lie!). I was the only member of the family who said that as long as she is doing what is needed, the results are not that important.

Another cause of stress is the inability to see the uniqueness of ones own temperament and overvaluing and exaggerating ones own ability to use his will power and the control he has over his destiny.

Through the law of averages, the individual is no longer able to appreciate his/her own uniqueness, comparing himself with others all the time to see where he stands, neither appreciating nor realizing his own natural tendencies, and therefore potential, which limits his ability to capitalize on them.

I think if we, as human beings, stop having unrealistic expectations about ourselves, life will become less difficult. Its was never meant to be easy in the first place.

The above is not meant to deny that there are many biological aspects to depression and anxiety.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

FranEB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:53 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by FranEB » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:37 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:04 am
As for ECT...
Quackery at it's finest.
Quackery that works ;)

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals ... 2705-5.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/21/1/63/4708251

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:47 pm

FranEB wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:37 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:04 am
As for ECT...
Quackery at it's finest.
Quackery that works ;)

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals ... 2705-5.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/21/1/63/4708251
And I quote:
ECT is an effective short-term treatment for depression
Stunning a person into insensibility works, as long as the person is stunned.

Crystal meth also kicks your ass screaming out of Depression, but I also wouldn't recommend it as a long term option. ;)
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

FranEB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:53 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by FranEB » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:17 pm

Hi Gregoris,

For someone in a catatonic or suicidal state for whom other treatments have not worked, ECT can be a lifesaving therapy. I understand if you would not choose it, but it is important for medicine to be evidence based rather than based on personal opinions.

Stigmatising a potentially lifesaving treatment is unskillful. Too many suffer already.

:namaste:

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:01 pm

FranEB wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:17 pm
Hi Gregoris,

For someone in a catatonic or suicidal state for whom other treatments have not worked, ECT can be a lifesaving therapy. I understand if you would not choose it, but it is important for medicine to be evidence based rather than based on personal opinions.

Stigmatising a potentially lifesaving treatment is unskillful. Too many suffer already.

:namaste:
I am a clinical psychologist.

ECT is quackery.

PS The subject sample size in the second report is only 239 patients...
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

FranEB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:53 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by FranEB » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:03 am

Good to meet you. I am a university lecturer in Psychology and Neurosciences. I also worked as an assistant psychologist in a clinical department before deciding that I preferred academia to clinical practice.

The sample size you refer to is actually a decent size for this type of study.

If you want to believe that ECT is quackery that is your choice. I sincerely hope that you do not describe it as such to any patients that you may have as that would be unethical in professional terms and unskillful in Buddhist terms,

Further, ECT is neither fraudulent nor ignorant. Psychiatrists who use it freely admit that they do not know how it works (although there are some interesting suggestions based on scanning and neurochemistry) - but it does. I maintain that it is unskillful to dismiss a therapy which is literally lifesaving in some cases. I suggest that you have a look at the following - particularly Weiner’s study :)

WEINER, R. D.; RETI, I. M. Key updates in the clinical application of electroconvulsive therapy. International Review of Psychiatry, [s. l.], v. 29, n. 2, p. 54–62, 2017. Disponível em: <http://search.ebscohost.com.libezproxy. ... scope=site>. Acesso em: 31 jul. 2019.

Saleem N, Rauf S, Ullah S, Jehangir S. Efficacy of Electroconvulsive Therapy in Treatment - Resistant Depression. Pakistan Armed Forces Medical Journal. 2018;68(4):969-974. http://search.ebscohost.com.libezproxy. ... scope=site. Accessed July 31, 2019.

Bahji A, Hawken ER, Sepehry AA, Cabrera CA, Vazquez G. ECT beyond unipolar major depression: systematic review and meta‐analysis of electroconvulsive therapy in bipolar depression. Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica. 2019;139(3):214-226. doi:10.1111/acps.12994.

BJØLSETH, T. M. et al. Clinical efficacy of formula-based bifrontal versus right unilateral electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) in the treatment of major depression among elderly patients: A pragmatic, randomized, assessor-blinded, controlled trial. Journal of Affective Disorders, [s. l.], v. 175, p. 8–17, 2015. Disponível em: <http://search.ebscohost.com.libezproxy. ... scope=site>. Acesso em: 31 jul. 2019.

FranEB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:53 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by FranEB » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm

Hi Grigoris,

I forgot to ask what your objection is to ECT?

:namaste:
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."

— AN 5.198

Dena True
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:07 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Dena True » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:57 am

It is difficult dealing with depression and anxiety. You are vulnerable and you can mess things up big time while you are in that phase. And while there are things like yoga and meditation that can help you to deal with it, there is a lot more help you need to fight it and get out of that phase. Depression needs a cure and you can begin that by taking nutritional health supplements such as vitamin d3 supplements, turmeric curcumin supplements and omega 3 supplements. These are proven to fight depression. You can also consider taking hormone replacement therapy which will help you balance your hormones and fight depression. Moreover you can have an improved health with the use of these supplements and therapy.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Grigoris » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:29 pm

FranEB wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm
Hi Grigoris,

I forgot to ask what your objection is to ECT?

:namaste:
What sort of an objection could I personally have against electrocuting somebody into insensibility?

I mean, really...

How could somebody possibly object? :shrug:
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

FranEB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:53 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by FranEB » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:18 pm

Oh dear.

In the UK the person is anaesthetised, and a brief pulse @50 -100mC is administered for @less than one second. To put that in perspective, mC stands for millicoulombs.One mC is 1/1000th of a coulomb and a coulomb is 1A in 1 second.

To electrocute a person it takes >2A

The @ dose in ECT @400 times smaller and adminstered for less than a second @0.5 -0.75.

Times have moved on from One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest. I seriously wonder how many people that film and the myths of ECT have killed or incapacitated. You and I both know that without adequate treatment, depression kills and disables.

ECT mortality is @2.1 per 100 000. Compare that to mortality from psychiatric disorder. Globally the suicide rate is 11.4 per 100 000. In the US it is 14.5. 90% of suicides are associated with psychiatric disorder - particularly depressive disorder. In the UK, suicide is the leading cause of death for 20 -34 year olds and for men under the age of 50. If you break that down further it is likely that the death rate from depressive disorder is substantially higher. I’m not suggesting that ECT should be used more widely, and I know that suicide is a complex behaviour, but ECT is an important and necessary treatment for some people.

I wouldn’t hesitate to have it if my depressive disorder became treatment resistant. With four previous attempts on my own life I know how bad it gets :smile:
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."

— AN 5.198

Dinsdale
Posts: 6628
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:04 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:29 pm
FranEB wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:15 pm
Hi Grigoris,

I forgot to ask what your objection is to ECT?

:namaste:
What sort of an objection could I personally have against electrocuting somebody into insensibility?

I mean, really...

How could somebody possibly object? :shrug:
I used to be an electrician and suffered a number of electric shocks in the course of my work. But I don't think that is comparable with ECT treatment.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Dealing with Depression and Anxiety

Post by Grigoris » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:01 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:04 pm
I used to be an electrician and suffered a number of electric shocks in the course of my work. But I don't think that is comparable with ECT treatment.
Did you enjoy the experience? I am joking, as I have been electrocuted once myself and know how much fun it is.

In my work I deal mainly (almost exclusively) with asylum seekers that are victims of torture. Electrocution is a common method of torture. I would definitely not recommend ECT for them.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Buddho93 and 7 guests