Vegetarians and depression

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Vegetarians and depression

Post by robertk » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:04 am

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2716323916
A large survey of Australian women in their 20's, found a significant increase in elevated depressive symptoms among vegetarians compared to non-vegetarians (22% v. 15%) (Baines et al., 2007). Among 1046 Australian women, lower red meat consumption was associated with nearly a doubling of risk for major depressive and anxiety disorders (Jacka et al., 2012). Among Norwegian students, nearly twice as many men and one third more women with low meat consumption reported having been depressed, after adjustment (Larsson et al., 2002). In a representative sample, depression was more common among completely and predominantly vegetarian German adults, but adoption of vegetarian diets followed the onset of mental illnesses (Michalak et al., 2012). In Minnesota, adolescent vegetarians were more likely to have eating disorders and to have contemplated and attempted suicide (Perry et al., 2001) and Turkish adolescent vegetarians had higher social and physique anxiety scores (Bas et al., 2005). In contrast, a small survey of Seventh Day Adventist adults found no increased risk of depression or anxiety among vegetarians who excluded fish (Beezhold et al., 2010).

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by robertk » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:10 am

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/w ... 83bbf39202
For those familiar with the world of Jordan Peterson, it may come as no surprise that he is a red-blooded carnivore.
I do not mean that as some kind of intellectual metaphor. Yes, the Canadian psychology professor turned lifestyle guru to millions of young men worldwide has always regarded intellectual pursuits as something of a blood sport, but now he has become evangelical about his diet.

Peterson has joined the new fashion for a “carnivore” diet, claiming it saved him from his lifelong depression

Dinsdale
Posts: 6082
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:15 am

What a depressing thread. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Sweeney
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:11 am

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by Sweeney » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:53 am

About the statistics regarding women and red meat, If they are women, then it's probably not the red meat per say that they need, but the lack of Iron, which is found in all meats, and in a lot higher quantities in white meat than red. The whole red meat thing is just nonsense propaganda. And I think the biggest factor in this topic is not the vegetarianism but the new converts to vegetarianism that don't eat properly. They didn't eat properly when they ate meat (relying solely on meat for nutrition) and they don't eat properly when they become vegetarian, hence they experience health issues. And especially for women losing quite a lot of iron each month, these things obviously need to be accounted for. Not saying that vegetarianism suits every bodies dietary requirements, just that people need to look more into where they're getting their nutrition from. I'm by no means a nutritional expert, I just try and eat a wide and balanced diet, but that waxes and wanes, I've still got a lot of bad eating habits, which is really the more pressing issue, not whether someone is vegetarian or not. Again not trying to say that vegetarianism suits every bodies dietary requirements, just as much as eating meat doesn't suit every bodies dietary requirements.
Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ
Kusalassa upasampadā
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ
Etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ
~ Dhp 183 ~

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by seeker242 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:00 am

however reverse causation cannot be ruled out.
Probably the most important statement of the whole article. :)

And a critique of said article.

http://www.theveganrd.com/2017/11/veget ... epression/

A particularly interesting snippet.
The subjects were a small group of self-identified vegans and vegetarians, many of whom turned out to be nothing of the kind. In fact, 5% of the vegetarians and 72% of the vegans (72 percent!) said they currently consume some red meat. They were also just as likely as the omnivores in the study to consume fatty fish and shellfish. So I don’t know – maybe the study showed that depression is more common among people who think they are vegetarian but aren’t at all.

paul
Posts: 1313
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: Vietnam

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by paul » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:18 am

If a person becomes a vegetarian they need to have a knowledge of nutrition, particularly the essential amino acids and their sources. While meat provides all the nine essential amino acids, most vegetarian sources do not contain complete protein, so a variety of vegetarian foods must be eaten to encompass all nine. So the person must know which foods contain which amino acids.
An essential amino acid, or indispensable amino acid, is an amino acid that cannot be synthesized de novo (from scratch) by the organism, and thus must be supplied in its diet. The nine amino acids humans cannot synthesize are phenylalanine, valine, threonine, tryptophan, methionine, leucine, isoleucine, lysine, and histidine.

Tryptophan being one of the nine essential amino acids, and if the vegetarian is not including it in their diet, there will be health consequences, as it is the source of serotonin. Tryptophan is the key ingredient in making serotonin; without it, serotonin won't be produced.

Serotonin deficiency manifests differently in men and in women. Women with a lack in serotonin have a general propensity to experience depressed moods and increased anxiety.

Serotonin deficiencies in men manifest differently: men are more prone to impulse control disorders, including ADHD. Low serotonin also makes men more susceptible to alcoholism and potentially other addictive diseases.

High tryptophan foods include nuts, seeds, tofu, cheese, red meat, chicken, turkey, fish, oats, beans, lentils, and eggs.
For this reason it is sensible to include eggs in a vegetarian diet.
Last edited by paul on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

markandeya
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:33 am

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by markandeya » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:25 am

These things are purely subjective and its just scapegoating and more often than not just propaganda backed by the meat industry using scare tactics.

Some study in constitution in Ayurveda and other ancient holistic methods shed more light and wsidom, that includes diet, exercise and cultivation of mind are a good base source. Modern science is impersonal and looks mainly for objective results when we all simple have unique conditions and constitutions, thats why some medicines work better for others and cause more side effects for others. This whole one size fits all again the main problem.

personally, unless one doesnt have choice its a bit more depressing to see how animals are treated in slaughter houses for business.

When people go from one extreme to the other the whole system maybe in shock due to rapid change, fats are addictive and produce craving, just replace with healthy fats. So there is often a detox period. A lot of people I have noticed go from normal diets full of junk and toxins in foods and then suddenly go into super healthy diets and it can cause imbalance.


Maybe in some places people have little choice, like in deserts, in rural places where its hard to grow naturally everything they need or coastal areas. In normal circumstances where most people have options and have abundance of choices but lack the right education to find balance.

i walked around Gujarat and other places in India where the vast majority have naturally followed vegetarian diets for millennia, and no really signs of depression, life has dukkha but whats termed as depression is probably more to do with modern society and if focusing on diets, its probably more to do all the chemicals and toxins in foods.

i know many vegetarians that are well balanced blissfull and happy and many people who eat meat that are dull and negative and depressed.

the Sanskrit term ahara is a holistic to approach to what we intake, that covers physical and mental and the process of digestion with holistic awareness, modern people live on junk food or information and wonder why they they dont feel the natural happiness that is abundant in life.

:anjali:

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3161
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by DooDoot » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:43 am

markandeya wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:25 am
These things are purely subjective and its just scapegoating and more often than not just propaganda backed by the meat industry using scare tactics.
Personally, I theorize the depression is mostly unrelated to food but to loss of natural healthy sexual/reproductive drive; which includes the loss of the hungry tigress instinct for hunting meat. In short, the hungry tigress is wounded & has lost natural appetite.
markandeya wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:25 am
i walked around Gujarat and other places in India where the vast majority have naturally followed vegetarian diets for millennia, and no really signs of depression...
I imagine in Gujarat and other places in India most girls/women didn't spend their young formative years engaging in sexual misconduct.
markandeya wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:25 am
modern society and if focusing on diets, its probably more to do all the chemicals and toxins in foods.
I personally doubt this materialistic conjecture is true.


markandeya
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:33 am

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by markandeya » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:19 am

Personally, I theorize the depression is mostly unrelated to food but to loss of natural healthy sexual/reproductive drive; which includes the loss of the hungry tigress instinct for hunting meat. In short, the hungry tigress is wounded & has lost natural appetite.
i agree its not just one thing, that's why it needs to be looked at in a more holistic way and not just targeted to diet as the OP is suggesting that being vegetarian is a cause of depression, depression or not feeling whole is due to not understanding the whole. Modern society lacks wisdom of the whole. That's why all research should be more holistic and not just focused on one dimensional study and each person should treated as individuals.

To totally rule out that there is marketing and propaganda coming out of these reports is again not finding the balance.
I imagine in Gujarat and other places in India most girls/women didn't spend their young formative years engaging in sexual misconduct.
agree, but also it not noticing the holistic balance that simple/advanced cultures have as a whole, where there is natural unity with nature.
markandeya wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:25 am
modern society and if focusing on diets, its probably more to do all the chemicals and toxins in foods.

doodoot
I personally doubt this materialistic conjecture is true.I personally doubt this materialistic conjecture is true.
Again, it not looking at more balanced holistic conditions, check any labels and its filled with unnatural chemicals, preservative and the like. Not just speaking for myself but I have been associating with people who follow good diets for a long time and all have said the same thing, that if they eat things that have to many addictive's there are shifts in consciousness for the worse. That is by experience, and not just my own, which I would prefer to go by rather than impersonal objective reasoning and science.


We are not tigers.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3161
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by DooDoot » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am

markandeya wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:19 am
We are not tigers.
The "tigress" was a metaphor. :roll:

Dinsdale
Posts: 6082
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:07 am

seeker242 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:00 am
however reverse causation cannot be ruled out.
Probably the most important statement of the whole article. :)
It's notoriously difficult to show direct causation in studies like this, since there all sorts of uncontrolled variables.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by seeker242 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:44 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:07 am
seeker242 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:00 am
however reverse causation cannot be ruled out.
Probably the most important statement of the whole article. :)
It's notoriously difficult to show direct causation in studies like this, since there all sorts of uncontrolled variables.
Agreed. Which is why news reports of said study entitled "Vegetarianism causes depression" are rightly cringworthy. :lol:

2600htz
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by 2600htz » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:30 pm

Hello:

Im talking just from experience, but i think the increase in depressive symptoms its mainly because most people who become vegetarians do it with a mind full of aversion (they don´t like the idea of animals being butchered, they dislike the posture of society, many display strong aversion just smelling meat or eating close to someone who is not a vegetarian). To many people who turn vegetarians eating becomes unpleasant, they are used to the taste of meat, also they get into some troubles with family and friends because of menus. And lets not forget watching videos or documentaries of slaughterhouses. Its no wonder they get a couple more points in stress tests.

Regards.

Justsit
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by Justsit » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:55 pm

Becoming aware of the fact that animals experience intense suffering in the meat industry, and that the use of animals as food is extremely inefficient for modern societies, is what led me to become a vegetarian 36 years ago. My goal has been to eat wholesome foods, help alleviate suffering, and contribute to a healthier ecology of the earth, so to me it was a positive motivation rather than an aversion that informed my choice; I guess it depends on your point of view. I certainly do not miss the taste of meat, and so far am very healthy and not depressed. These types of results vary widely, though, depending on the person and the individual situation.

Dinsdale
Posts: 6082
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Vegetarians and depression

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:09 am

2600htz wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:30 pm
Im talking just from experience, but i think the increase in depressive symptoms its mainly because most people who become vegetarians do it with a mind full of aversion (they don´t like the idea of animals being butchered, they dislike the posture of society, many display strong aversion just smelling meat or eating close to someone who is not a vegetarian).
So it seems that vegetarians have an aversion to the suffering of animals, which perhaps suggests that they are more empathetic, or more sensitive. Possibly there is a link between empathy and depression, due to an increased sensitivity?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests