The benefits of silence

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Saengnapha
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Saengnapha » Wed May 30, 2018 4:51 am

seeker242 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 7:23 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:09 pm
seeker242 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:58 am


Not one does not lead to another per say. However, one does prevent the other. If you never stop your mouth, then you'll never stop your mind. :meditate:
the mouth is a reflection of your mind, I believe. Your mouth cannot operate independent of thinking, but thinking can operate independent of your mouth (physical). Just have a look to see if it is true.
Exactly! Which is why if you don't stop your mouth, you'll never stop your mind. :smile:
I don't think it works this way. You'll never stop your mind trying to stop your mouth. It is illogical.

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seeker242
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by seeker242 » Wed May 30, 2018 11:29 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:51 am
I don't think it works this way. You'll never stop your mind trying to stop your mouth. It is illogical.
You are characterizing it backwards. Try this experiment. Silence your mind, with your mouth simultaneously rambling. It will be impossible! Talking is essentially really loud thinking. If you want your mind to be silent, you need to stop all thinking, including the really loud thinking. Stopping the really loud thinking is easy, you just don't open your mouth. No one is saying not opening your mouth will stop all thinking.

Dinsdale
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Dinsdale » Thu May 31, 2018 1:10 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:51 am
I don't think it works this way. You'll never stop your mind trying to stop your mouth. It is illogical.
Have you ever been on a silent retreat? Or a solitary retreat?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Saengnapha
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:32 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:10 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:51 am
I don't think it works this way. You'll never stop your mind trying to stop your mouth. It is illogical.
Have you ever been on a silent retreat? Or a solitary retreat?
I've never felt the need to do this purposefully. I have spent days in silence, alone.

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Sam Vara
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:17 am

Further to this point, I've just read this in Gifts he Left Behind, a compilation of the sayings of Luang Pu Dune.

A group of monks came to Luang Pu after maintaining strict silence (apart from Patimokkha and other chanting) throughout the whole rains retreat. He said to them:
That's pretty good. When there's no speaking, then no faults are committed by way of speech. But when you say that you stopped speaking, that simply can't be. Only the noble ones who enter the refined attainment of cessation, where feeling and perception stop, are able to stop speaking. Aside from them, everyone's speaking all day and all night long. And especially those who vow not to speak: They talk more than anyone else, simply that they don't make a sound that others can hear.

Dinsdale
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:18 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:32 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:10 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:51 am
I don't think it works this way. You'll never stop your mind trying to stop your mouth. It is illogical.
Have you ever been on a silent retreat? Or a solitary retreat?
I've never felt the need to do this purposefully. I have spent days in silence, alone.
And have you felt any benefit from periods of silence and solitude?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Saengnapha
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Saengnapha » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:31 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:18 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:32 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:10 pm


Have you ever been on a silent retreat? Or a solitary retreat?
I've never felt the need to do this purposefully. I have spent days in silence, alone.
And have you felt any benefit from periods of silence and solitude?
None. Some use it as a tactic for altering their state, but this is a very superficial attempt that doesn't approach insight. Not talking is not a necessary factor for anything, imo.

EternalHindu
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by EternalHindu » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:13 pm

Hii,
The Benefit Of Silence
Improves Memory
Stimulates Brain Growth
Relieves Stress
Fights Insomnia
Heightens Sensitivity

Dinsdale
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:33 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:31 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:18 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:32 am

I've never felt the need to do this purposefully. I have spent days in silence, alone.
And have you felt any benefit from periods of silence and solitude?
None. Some use it as a tactic for altering their state, but this is a very superficial attempt that doesn't approach insight. Not talking is not a necessary factor for anything, imo.
Your experience is very different to mine. I've found for example that extended periods of silence on retreats make one more deeply aware of other people, you realise that talking represents a very superficial layer of communication. And not talking definitely has a calming effect on the mind, it leads to less thinking.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Saengnapha
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Saengnapha » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:46 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:33 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:31 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:18 am


And have you felt any benefit from periods of silence and solitude?
None. Some use it as a tactic for altering their state, but this is a very superficial attempt that doesn't approach insight. Not talking is not a necessary factor for anything, imo.
Your experience is very different to mine. I've found for example that extended periods of silence on retreats make one more deeply aware of other people, you realise that talking represents a very superficial layer of communication. And not talking definitely has a calming effect on the mind, it leads to less thinking.
Yes, it does, but I'm not looking to calm my mind or become more deeply aware of other people. These are only temporary effects.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Pseudobabble » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:27 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:46 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:33 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:31 am

None. Some use it as a tactic for altering their state, but this is a very superficial attempt that doesn't approach insight. Not talking is not a necessary factor for anything, imo.
Your experience is very different to mine. I've found for example that extended periods of silence on retreats make one more deeply aware of other people, you realise that talking represents a very superficial layer of communication. And not talking definitely has a calming effect on the mind, it leads to less thinking.
Yes, it does, but I'm not looking to calm my mind or become more deeply aware of other people. These are only temporary effects.
What are you looking for?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

Saengnapha
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:26 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:27 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:46 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:33 pm


Your experience is very different to mine. I've found for example that extended periods of silence on retreats make one more deeply aware of other people, you realise that talking represents a very superficial layer of communication. And not talking definitely has a calming effect on the mind, it leads to less thinking.
Yes, it does, but I'm not looking to calm my mind or become more deeply aware of other people. These are only temporary effects.
What are you looking for?
You could say that I am looking at experience, not looking for something. If I am looking for something, it can only be an idea and not immediately present.

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Sam Vara
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:31 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:26 am
Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:27 pm

What are you looking for?
You could say that I am looking at experience, not looking for something. If I am looking for something, it can only be an idea and not immediately present.
Indeed, but there is always an element of intention in every act of paying attention; given that you are looking at experience, why have you chosen to look at particular bits of the world rather than other bits? Why, for example, did you choose Dhamma Wheel rather than another part of the internet, or why the internet rather than switch off and look at flowers or the wall in front of you?

Just a thought, but could it be that you are looking for social situations where you can talk to people like you have heard UG talk? Situations that allow you to parry questions and remain non-committal, while sounding as if you know something that others don't know?

markandeya
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by markandeya » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:44 am

:anjali:

What is silence, usually we tend to think its just being quiet, to refrain from speaking. This can apply and is benefical, sometimes with that silence is there not some internal chatter or if there is a type of spiritual emptiness silence is there not some form of sound still existing, or do all external sound and events fade, maybe in intense states of abortions or jhana and samadhi, but that is a purification silence and is temporary and I would still say there is still still sound, but not ordinary sound.

Ajhan Sumedho often talks about the sound of silence, or inner silence which is based on sound, anāhate shabda is unstruck sound, its without start or end anāhate shabda purifies at the deepest level inherent samskaras mental formations and upadhi limitations in chitta, in arupa jhanas both inner dharma eye and inner dharma ears are awakened, so it must be seeing and hearing something, but beyond the normal sensory fields as arupa jhana are immaterial., in sanskrit these sights and sounds are known as shabda Brahma and Brahma joyti.

I was a manager for some time at a secular vipassana retreat center and every now and again people would leave silent retreats because they could not bear the noise of thoughts and disturbing emotions, so just refraining from external vocal activity or trying to be in a silent atmosphere is a the false sense of silence, I have also experienced it in tradition vipassana and other retreat and monastic environments, but is a great practice for those that can manage it. Inner silence is a profound energy of fullness and wholeness which transcends ordinary thoughts and activities. Silence is synonymous with wisdom

Silence maun is beyond ordinary speech and thought and is absent of the attachment and feeding of the self view consciousness, silence is not a house builder, its beyond all forms of ordinary speech and thought, it breaks down the house builder, but that does not mean that speech and thought in more profounds states are not in silence. Silence can be seen or experienced as no creative activity of speech and thought. transmission of pure silence between beings was demonstrated by Ramana Maharshi, who would speak to people and animals through non verbal communication, and when he spoke that same silence was present and had same effect. Silence is universal language

Silence as a practice is very good, it calms down mind and discursive thinking, some time practicing silence once or twice or week or wherever possible retreat environments are also good. Silence helps with reflection of and cultivation of samadhi, i ī (long i) in samadhi means silence or the reflective ability when mind is turned inwards away from sense contact, sense contact is noise or activity, silence is compassion for oneself and all others, silence of reflection is vibratory.

There is also anechoic chamber, this is not the same silence as maun, absent of noise is not silence, its escapism or denial of the whole of reality as it naturally exists and occures. Silence comes at 3 levels, silence of mind is based on inner sound, nada, shabda brahma, Om is silence but is vibratory silence that pacifies and eliminates gross sounds and is accompanied with light when sound and light resonate in full potential then there is pure silence anada as per nadabindhu upanishad , nada sound and anada without sound.

There are sadhus who live in pure silence but are always talking or communicating one way or another, even if it cant be picked up or seen or heard with normal sense faculty :) sounds contradictory but we tend to think of silence as an absence of all noise and events, those same noise and events can be purified and silence then takes on a new paradigm silence and sound then become non dual.

Traditionaly in some maun traditions and practices the winter months, certain periods of the year , on Mondays and Thursdays are consider good days for silence and refraining from external sense contact.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ories.html

Saengnapha
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Re: The benefits of silence

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:26 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:31 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:26 am
Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:27 pm

What are you looking for?
You could say that I am looking at experience, not looking for something. If I am looking for something, it can only be an idea and not immediately present.
Indeed, but there is always an element of intention in every act of paying attention; given that you are looking at experience, why have you chosen to look at particular bits of the world rather than other bits? Why, for example, did you choose Dhamma Wheel rather than another part of the internet, or why the internet rather than switch off and look at flowers or the wall in front of you?

Just a thought, but could it be that you are looking for social situations where you can talk to people like you have heard UG talk? Situations that allow you to parry questions and remain non-committal, while sounding as if you know something that others don't know?
For me, the act of paying attention is the intention. Attention is attentive to all parts. Some parts demand action while others don't.
Some questions demand a reply. If you hold up an image of how someone is supposed to be or how you think they should be, it is a disservice to all.

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