Why one meal a day?

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samseva
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by samseva » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:31 pm

Mkoll wrote:The fact is that there is a scientific controversy regarding the possibility of deleterious health effects of saturated fat and cholesterol consumption. A quick search on PubMed and Google will verify this to be true. To portray the science as being settled or to say that cholesterol and/or saturated fat is good for your health based on the science is misleading.

This thread is starting to turn into the great veg debate. A lot of these recent posts, including mine, would be more at home there.
The fact that we have been eating large amounts of saturated fat for the past few million years, that lipids in breast milk is composed of 32-55% saturated fat, as well as some cholesterol, and that the liver actually produces cholesterol is pretty convincing evidence to me.

It is more of a nutrition debate, but what else can you expect in a thread about meals and food?

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Alex123
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Alex123 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:39 pm

samseva wrote:
Mkoll wrote:The fact is that there is a scientific controversy regarding the possibility of deleterious health effects of saturated fat and cholesterol consumption. A quick search on PubMed and Google will verify this to be true. To portray the science as being settled or to say that cholesterol and/or saturated fat is good for your health based on the science is misleading.

This thread is starting to turn into the great veg debate. A lot of these recent posts, including mine, would be more at home there.
The fact that we have been eating large amounts of saturated fat for the past few million years, that lipids in breast milk is composed of 32-55% saturated fat, as well as some cholesterol, and that the liver actually produces cholesterol is pretty convincing evidence to me.

It is more of a nutrition debate, but what else can you expect in a thread about meals and food?
That is a great point, mother's milk contains lots of saturated fat and such. Furthermore, the closer the composition of food source is to the body that consumes it, the better it should be. Humans are made from animal material, not from plant material.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Mkoll
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Mkoll » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:14 am

samseva wrote:
Mkoll wrote:The fact is that there is a scientific controversy regarding the possibility of deleterious health effects of saturated fat and cholesterol consumption. A quick search on PubMed and Google will verify this to be true. To portray the science as being settled or to say that cholesterol and/or saturated fat is good for your health based on the science is misleading.

This thread is starting to turn into the great veg debate. A lot of these recent posts, including mine, would be more at home there.
The fact that we have been eating large amounts of saturated fat for the past few million years, that lipids in breast milk is composed of 32-55% saturated fat, as well as some cholesterol, and that the liver actually produces cholesterol is pretty convincing evidence to me.
If that convinces you, alright then. However, that wasn't what I was responding to. What I was responding to was what you said here:
samseva wrote:The demonizing of saturated fat comes from a scientist named Ancel Keys, dating back to the 1950's. The scientific information is outdated and simply false.
I should have quoted that in my post and if you read my post in light of that, it will be less of a non sequitur.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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tattoogunman
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by tattoogunman » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:52 pm

Alex123 wrote:
samseva wrote:
Mkoll wrote:The fact is that there is a scientific controversy regarding the possibility of deleterious health effects of saturated fat and cholesterol consumption. A quick search on PubMed and Google will verify this to be true. To portray the science as being settled or to say that cholesterol and/or saturated fat is good for your health based on the science is misleading.

This thread is starting to turn into the great veg debate. A lot of these recent posts, including mine, would be more at home there.
The fact that we have been eating large amounts of saturated fat for the past few million years, that lipids in breast milk is composed of 32-55% saturated fat, as well as some cholesterol, and that the liver actually produces cholesterol is pretty convincing evidence to me.

It is more of a nutrition debate, but what else can you expect in a thread about meals and food?
That is a great point, mother's milk contains lots of saturated fat and such. Furthermore, the closer the composition of food source is to the body that consumes it, the better it should be. Humans are made from animal material, not from plant material.
Yes, but a baby's nutritional requirements versus those of an adult are completely different ;)

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samseva
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by samseva » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:23 am

tattoogunman wrote:Yes, but a baby's nutritional requirements versus those of an adult are completely different ;)
A baby's nutritional requirements vary in nutritional quantities compared to those of an adult—in large part due to its size—but it is basically the exact same micro- and macronutrients. Even if this statement were true, the fact that adults would have different nutritional requirements than babies would in no way make saturated fat unhealthy.

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tattoogunman
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by tattoogunman » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:15 am

samseva wrote:
tattoogunman wrote:Yes, but a baby's nutritional requirements versus those of an adult are completely different ;)
A baby's nutritional requirements vary in nutritional quantities compared to those of an adult—in large part due to its size—but it is basically the exact same micro- and macronutrients. Even if this statement were true, the fact that adults would have different nutritional requirements than babies would in no way make saturated fat unhealthy.
I never said it was, just that a baby's requirements are different from those of an adult. All things in moderation... ;)

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daverupa
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by daverupa » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:25 am

samseva wrote:
tattoogunman wrote:Yes, but a baby's nutritional requirements versus those of an adult are completely different ;)
A baby's nutritional requirements vary in nutritional quantities compared to those of an adult—in large part due to its size—but it is basically the exact same micro- and macronutrients.
False.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/44116 ... s-of-life/
Babies grow at a faster rate than people at any other stage of life. Because of this phenomenal growth, your infant's nutritional needs are different from those of an adult or older child. In addition, the rapid development of your baby's brain means he needs more of particular nutrients, but his small size requires that you provide some nutrients in smaller quantities.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Alex123
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Alex123 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:30 am

Still,

Adults nad babies, are humans. We do need similar kind of nutrients, just in different amount and/or proportions.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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samseva
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by samseva » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:32 pm

daverupa wrote:False.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/44116 ... s-of-life/
Babies grow at a faster rate than people at any other stage of life. Because of this phenomenal growth, your infant's nutritional needs are different from those of an adult or older child. In addition, the rapid development of your baby's brain means he needs more of particular nutrients, but his small size requires that you provide some nutrients in smaller quantities.
Live Strong is almost as reliable as Lance Armstrong himself. That aside, I said the nutritional requirements vary is quantity, but are the exact same micro- and macro-nutrients as the nutritional requirements of adults, which is what the article you posted describes.

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daverupa
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by daverupa » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:45 pm

Nevermind; talking nutrition with people is as foolish as talking with them about post-death speculations & politics; I forget this, sometimes.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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samseva
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by samseva » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:29 pm

daverupa wrote:Nevermind; talking nutrition with people is as foolish as talking with them about post-death speculations & politics; I forget this, sometimes.
Yes, it is surprising how emotionally-charged of a topic it is.

No hard feelings, though. :smile:

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Mkoll
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Mkoll » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:03 pm

daverupa wrote:talking nutrition with people is as foolish as talking with them about post-death speculations & politics
Depends on who you're talking to, but true in most cases IME.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Mkoll
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:02 am

samseva wrote:The problem is not cholesterol itself, it is oxidized cholesterol that is unhealthy. Oxidization of cholesterol—one among many other foods that can be oxidized—happens especially when cholesterol is cooked, even at low temperatures.
If oxidized cholesterol is unhealthy...and dairy, eggs, meat, and fish contain oxidized cholesterol (which they do)...then dairy, eggs, meat, and fish are unhealthy.

:thinking:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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samseva
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by samseva » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:56 am

Mkoll wrote:
samseva wrote:The problem is not cholesterol itself, it is oxidized cholesterol that is unhealthy. Oxidization of cholesterol—one among many other foods that can be oxidized—happens especially when cholesterol is cooked, even at low temperatures.
If oxidized cholesterol is unhealthy...and dairy, eggs, meat, and fish contain oxidized cholesterol (which they do)...then dairy, eggs, meat, and fish are unhealthy.

:thinking:
A small quantity of oxidized cholesterol doesn't make an entire food unhealthy. The logic doesn't add up and it could be applied to any food with minute amounts of unhealthy or inedible compounds; making almost anything we eat unhealthy.

More so, eggs can be cooked without cooking the cholesterol and there are cuts of meat which have much lower fat content, and therefore cholesterol.

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Mkoll
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Mkoll » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:48 am

samseva wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
samseva wrote:The problem is not cholesterol itself, it is oxidized cholesterol that is unhealthy. Oxidization of cholesterol—one among many other foods that can be oxidized—happens especially when cholesterol is cooked, even at low temperatures.
If oxidized cholesterol is unhealthy...and dairy, eggs, meat, and fish contain oxidized cholesterol (which they do)...then dairy, eggs, meat, and fish are unhealthy.

:thinking:
A small quantity of oxidized cholesterol doesn't make an entire food unhealthy. The logic doesn't add up and it could be applied to any food with minute amounts of unhealthy or inedible compounds; making almost anything we eat unhealthy.
The dose makes the poison. Eating a little bit of unhealthy stuff once in awhile probably isn't going to lead to disease. But eating it regularly may. It's chronic habits that lead to chronic disease.

Oxidized cholesterol is also not the only (possibly or proven to be) unhealthy compounds often found in animal products—food is a package deal. Some other examples are saturated fat, trans fat, animal protein, heme-iron, bacterial endotoxins, heavy metals, persistent organic pollutants, pesticides/fungicides/herbicides, hormones, and antibiotics. That's not to let plants off the hook: some plants have some of those very same problems (e.g. arsenic in rice) as well as unique issues of individual species.

So yeah, pretty much anything we eat is unhealthy in some way. ;) Knowing that, it's probably a good idea to choose the least bad option and mostly eat things that are shown to be the least unhealthy—if one cares to lower one's risk of getting diseased early.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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