The case against coffee (important)

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binocular
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by binocular » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:44 pm

I think this whole coffee thing has a lot to do with whom one seeks to be allied to, whose approval one seeks.

Personally, I don't drink coffee, because I don't like the way it adversely affects my ability to control my body and because it messes with my perception of my ability and productivity. If I drink coffee, I _feel_ more alert, more productive, more confident, more capable -- without actually being any of it. I that sense, I consider coffee to be more insidious than hardcore narcotics, as with those, one at least knows one is under their influence, while with coffee, it takes a while to notice what effect it has on one.

The biggest challenge for me in not drinking coffee is the feeling of alienation toward the people who drink coffee, especially if they are practicing Buddhists who are higher up in the formal or informal hierarchy than I. I'm not sure what their drinking coffee has to do with their spiritual attainments, if anything at all. I do notice that coffee-drinking Buddhists seem to function at a different pace than I, in a different mode, and that I and them don't get along well.

Buddha Vacana
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Buddha Vacana » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:09 pm

In my experience, coffee messes up with the entire nervous system and I feel a lot more "down" than I have previously felt "up", sometimes with headaches, so I have taken the personal decision to not take coffee or only occasionally. Other people seem to function much more easily under massive doses of coffee than I do, so I suspect there is a considerable individual variation. But I don't think the effect is in nature much different for various individuals and if it's an intoxicant for some chances are it is an intoxicant for all, just at varying degrees.

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ihrjordan
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by ihrjordan » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:35 pm

Cigarettes are shunned all over as detrimental to one's health, yet coffee is widely accepted and which is only different in the mode of ingestion and coffee which is a stimulant as opposed to a sedative like nicotine. Don't be fooled, everyone who drinks coffee experiences more or less the same things otherwise they wouldnt need to keep drinking coffee.... it's just a matter of coming to terms with the effects it has on one's body and realizing that they are better off without it. Besides how can you possibly develop discernment in the face of sloth and torpor when you can just reach for another cup of coffee?

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binocular
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by binocular » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:42 pm

Buddha Vacana wrote:Other people seem to function much more easily under massive doses of coffee than I do
Yes ... I used to envy them that. I felt like such a loser for not being able to handle coffee. Now, not so much.

ihrjordan wrote:Cigarettes are shunned all over as detrimental to one's health, yet coffee is widely accepted and which is only different in the mode of ingestion and coffee which is a stimulant as opposed to a sedative like nicotine.
There are also many social events and niceties associated with drinking coffee -- a venue for meeting friends, nice cups and other paraphernalia for preparing and consuming coffee, nice coffee-shops with nice tables and nice chairs etc. etc.

If people had to drink coffee from plain cups in some plain settings, alone, then drinking coffee would probably be far less appealing or to fewer people.

Prexsy
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Prexsy » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:59 pm

Buddism&buddha have never prohibited drinking coffee and never suggested to drinking coffee to alter the cognitive or consciousness. In my opinion (i'm a physician in BKK) you should drink in apropriate level (<200mg/day) and avoid to dependent on caffein in order not to expose to adverse effect, get well soon

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Keith
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Keith » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:41 pm

Not sure the Buddha would have promoted broadly rejecting scientific research either: seems like an attachment to views to me.

rolling_boulder
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by rolling_boulder » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:33 am

I gave up caffeine a couple of months ago. (besides a bunch of green tea I drank when I had a bad cold.) Cravings still come up from time to time, but past the first 2 weeks they almost completely fell away.

I think there are much worse things to be dependent on than coffee. At the same time, however, one can really become dependent on it to function normally, which is obviously undesirable. My dad has to drink about 10 cups of coffee in the morning before he goes to work.
The world is swept away. It does not endure...
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.

denise
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by denise » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:22 am

someone said once that coffee actually will tire you out because it makes the heart work much harder....

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Sprouticus
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Sprouticus » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:00 am

binocular wrote:
Buddha Vacana wrote:Other people seem to function much more easily under massive doses of coffee than I do
Yes ... I used to envy them that. I felt like such a loser for not being able to handle coffee. Now, not so much.

ihrjordan wrote:Cigarettes are shunned all over as detrimental to one's health, yet coffee is widely accepted and which is only different in the mode of ingestion and coffee which is a stimulant as opposed to a sedative like nicotine.
There are also many social events and niceties associated with drinking coffee -- a venue for meeting friends, nice cups and other paraphernalia for preparing and consuming coffee, nice coffee-shops with nice tables and nice chairs etc. etc.

If people had to drink coffee from plain cups in some plain settings, alone, then drinking coffee would probably be far less appealing or to fewer people.
I would drink coffee from a shoe if there were no cups. A clean shoe, mind you. Coffee is delicious.
Namo buddhaya

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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:45 am

I was going to respond to the OP in a coherent and detailed manner, but I'm only on my second coffee of the morning so I'm not really up to it. :tongue:
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denise
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by denise » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:10 pm

anyone remember people going to Mexico for curing cancer...part of that cure was coffee enemas....this was in the 70s

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Pax
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Pax » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:35 pm

Coffee is a wonderful natural way to help ease asthma symptoms, so I'm a fan.

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Sprouticus
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by Sprouticus » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:05 am

denise wrote:anyone remember people going to Mexico for curing cancer...part of that cure was coffee enemas....this was in the 70s
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/1 ... -yet/?_r=0
Namo buddhaya

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ihrjordan
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by ihrjordan » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:21 am

For everyone who likes coffee this is fine. Go ahead and drink your coffee but we should at least keep in mind that no matter what action we do or substance we ingest WILL have an effect and it is never the case that it won't. Are you taking a substance to get a buzz or to get rid of old feelings without arousing new ones? Any motive other than this will not end well :namaste:

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ihrjordan
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Re: The case against coffee (important)

Post by ihrjordan » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:28 am

Keith wrote:Not sure the Buddha would have promoted broadly rejecting scientific research either: seems like an attachment to views to me.
I don't think western science would have fallen under the scope of what is dhamma. And besides I think the Buddha would have preferred us to use our own discernment when it comes to such matters rather than allowing science to do the thinking for us.
And even if I did play into the scientific research mode of inquiry I still think it's foolish to ignore the links between coffee and pancreatic cancer for example. We often ignore those findings which do not support our understanding but instead grasp to those which do, which won't in the end make thevery former findings any less true. :namaste:

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