The case against coffee (important)

[rolling_boulder]

Coffee gives me the runs, so I can't drink it anymore.

So, forced renunciation on this one.

[robertk]

Coffee gives me the runs, so I can't drink it anymore.

In situations like that I like to ask, "What would Wally do?"

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[DNS]

Coffee gives me the runs, so I can't drink it anymore.

In situations like that I like to ask, "What would Wally do?"

dt090409.gif

As we get older, there is a tendency to get constipated.

The elderly are five times more likely than younger adults to develop problems related to constipation.
https://www.news-medical.net/health/Con ... derly.aspx

Another reason for coffee.

[ihrjordan]

Sorry for the amateurish information presented everyone. I posted this at the time with only a superficial understanding of ayurvedic medicine and my opinion on coffee has since changed a bit. Like every other substance coffee can be good for some but not for others. Although I still stand by my opinion of coffee being generally disadvantageous for monastics who eat one meal a day as it can cause weakness, emaciation and the like upon so little food intake.

One need only go on a day long black coffee fast to see how it truly affects you (please don't do this)

See here (Not Buddhist but still provides a general reflection as to what was viewed as injurious and beneficial for a renunciant at the time, a lot of which mirrors Buddhist teachings):

The following is from The Hatha Yoga Pradipika, it is the end of the first chapter or lesson one.
Foods injurious to a Yogi or Yogini
Bitter, sour, saltish, green vegetables, fermented, oily, mixed with til (sesame) seed, rape seed, intoxicating liquors, fish, meat, curds (yogurt), chhaasa pulses, plums, oil-cake, asafoetida (hinga), garlic, onion, etc., should not be eaten.
Food heated again, dry, having too much salt, sour, minor grains, and vegetables that cause burning sensation, should not be eaten. Fire, women, travelling, etc., should be avoided.
As said by Goraksa, one should keep aloof from the society of the evil-minded, fire, travelling, early morning bath, fasting, and all kinds of bodily exertion.
Wheat, rice, barley, shâstik (a kind of rice), good corns, milk, ghee, sugar, butter, sugar candy, honey, dried ginger, Parwal (a vegetable aka. pointed gourd), the five vegetables, moong, pure water, these are very beneficial to those who practice Yoga.
A yogi or yogini should eat tonics (things giving strength), well sweetened, greasy (made with ghee), milk butter, etc., which may increase humors of the body, according to his or her desire.
Whether young, old or too old, sick or lean, one who discards laziness, gets success if he or she practices Yoga.
Success comes to him or her who is engaged in the practice. How can one get success without practice; for by merely reading books on Yoga, one can never get success.
Success cannot be attained by adopting a particular dress (Vesa). It cannot be gained by telling tales. Practice alone is the means to success. This is true, there is no doubt.
âsanas, various Kumbhakas, and other divine means, all should be practiced in the practice of Yoga, till the fruit óf Râja Yoga is obtained.
https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/?s=injurious

[ihrjordan]

Further reading https://easyayurveda.com/2013/06/25/bit ... e-effects/ https://easyayurveda.com/2013/06/18/sou ... e-effects/
https://easyayurveda.com/2013/06/21/sal ... e-effects/

[ihrjordan]

As we get older, there is a tendency to get constipated.
The elderly are five times more likely than younger adults to develop problems related to constipation.
https://www.news-medical.net/health/Con ... derly.aspx
Another reason for coffee.

Coffee is a diuretic. The tendency towards constipation as one ages is due to accumulation of the wind and space elements aka decaying. Notice as one ages the body gets drier, strength is depleted and complexion is liable to fade. Bitter taste increases these qualities of dryness, brittleness etc. So age related constipation is better treated with foods that provide nourishment, unctuousness, moistness, lubrication etc. Milk, Ghee, Butter, Sugar, Fruit, Grains.

The Buddha was recorded as frequently enjoying the above foods and never a large coffee with two espresso shots added. This will age one considerably if taken improperly.

But regarding the constipation that coffee DOES treat. That more often than not has to do with sleeping more than one should. This type of constipation could be prevented by simply waking up before the sun rises as the Buddha would have it. E.G Awakening during the the last watch of the night (between 2 and 6 am.)

There's a good reason behind everything the buddha taught

[Dhammarakkhito]

i agree. caffeine is mind altering, you don't have to drink coffee except you want to. not right to say buddha would have banned it, that borders on possible slander

[ihrjordan]

i agree. caffeine is mind altering, you don't have to drink coffee except you want to. not right to say buddha would have banned it, that borders on possible slander

I'd wager he would have disallowed it excepting of use as medicine. He allowed alcohol as medicine so why not coffee? He allowed fruit and vegetable juices for drinking as well as sugar dissolved in water but coffee can be actively harmful (physically and mentally) to one who eats so little already.
It can make one susceptible to emaciation, dehydration and weakness in the hot season (may 22nd to July 22nd) Acidity related diseases in the fall (Sept 22nd to Nov 22nd) and more emaciation and weakness in early and late winter (Nov 22nd to March 22nd).

The Buddha made mention of ayurvedic medicinal theory a couple times within the tipitika. One needs only a fundamental understanding to see it and connect the dots.

[DNS]

I'd wager he would have disallowed it excepting of use as medicine. He allowed alcohol as medicine so why not coffee? He allowed fruit and vegetable juices for drinking as well as sugar dissolved in water but coffee can be actively harmful (physically and mentally) to one who eats so little already.

Although I still stand by my opinion of coffee being generally disadvantageous for monastics who eat one meal a day as it can cause weakness, emaciation and the like upon so little food intake.

Actually, most monks don't eat too little. Most eat 2 meals before noon and some eat 'tonics' or even a full meal at night too. Many monks are overweight and some are borderline obese. I'm sure that's not the way it's supposed to be, but the reality never the less.

[ihrjordan]

I'd wager he would have disallowed it excepting of use as medicine. He allowed alcohol as medicine so why not coffee? He allowed fruit and vegetable juices for drinking as well as sugar dissolved in water but coffee can be actively harmful (physically and mentally) to one who eats so little already.

Although I still stand by my opinion of coffee being generally disadvantageous for monastics who eat one meal a day as it can cause weakness, emaciation and the like upon so little food intake.

Actually, most monks don't eat too little. Most eat 2 meals before noon and some eat 'tonics' or even a full meal at night too. Many monks are overweight and some are borderline obese. I'm sure that's not the way it's supposed to be, but the reality never the less.

Well that goes beyond the discussion of simply whether coffee should be allowable. That's a much greater issue if you ask me.

[cappuccino]

No… this drink is not good.

[cjmacie]

...Coffee on the other hand causes diseases of emaciation such as weight gain neurological disorders etc. These are not views this is how the elements operate within our physiology.

How elements operate from the viewpoint of ayurvedic medicine -- or maybe it's just your view of that otherwise noble tradition.

... You'd be surprised at the complete ignorance of western medicine ...

All traditions -- Western, Chinese, Tibetan, Greek, Hebrew, Ayurvedic medicine, etc. -- have strengths and blind spots. Such an exaggerated assertion as yours here simply further undermines credibility.

[robertk]

https://www.livescience.com/62970-coffe ... death.html

[rightviewftw]

I think this whole coffee thing has a lot to do with whom one seeks to be allied to, whose approval one seeks.

Personally, I don't drink coffee, because I don't like the way it adversely affects my ability to control my body and because it messes with my perception of my ability and productivity. If I drink coffee, I _feel_ more alert, more productive, more confident, more capable -- without actually being any of it. I that sense, I consider coffee to be more insidious than hardcore narcotics, as with those, one at least knows one is under their influence, while with coffee, it takes a while to notice what effect it has on one.

This is more or less how i view coffee as well. I think habitual drinkers most often underestimate it's effects, it is a potent drug which will make one stay awake for many hours at times where one would not be able to keep eyes open if being sober.