How did you transition your diet?

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tiltbillings
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by tiltbillings »

dhammacoustic wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Do you know anything about this text?
I know that it is a Mahāyāna text, is that why you reject it?
In other words, you rerally know nothing about it.
That does not state that the Buddha did not eat meat.
So he ate animals alive, and instructed people to do so?
Your question make no sense.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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dhammacoustic
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by dhammacoustic »

tiltbillings wrote:In other words, you rerally know nothing about it.
You are saying that those are not the words of the Buddha then?
Your question make no sense.
Is that so?

So where exactly would the meat come from if everyone abandoned the taking of life.
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tiltbillings
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by tiltbillings »

dhammacoustic wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:In other words, you rerally know nothing about it.
You are saying that those are not the words of the Buddha then?
Something that was composed around 300 CE, reflecting significant cultural changes probably would have a hard time being defended as what the Buddha spoke
Your question make no sense.
Is that so?

So where exactly would the meat come from if everyone abandoned the taking of life.
What does any of this have to do with eating animal alive?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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dhammacoustic
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by dhammacoustic »

tiltbillings wrote:What does any of this have to do with eating animal alive?
The Buddha ate meat (according to you), yet he instructed people to abandon taking life. So, he either advocated eating them alive, or not eating them at all. Which one is it?
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acinteyyo
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by acinteyyo »

Wanderer wrote:Hello all,

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but I am curious how people that became Buddhists transitioned(if they weren't already) to vegetarianism.

It seems like such a huge change and one that I struggle to comprehend because it changes, well, the basis of my diet.

Looking forward to your replies! :)
Hey Wanderer,

I would recommend to do it step by step. I'm now in a transition from an omnivore diet to a vegan diet. I don't think it is a good idea to try to do it in an "all-or-nothing" type of way. From my experience those attempts usually fail in the long run.
I've never eaten much meat, so it was easy for me to let go of the little meat I ate. If you eat meat on a regular base, try to abstain from eating meat one day per week or if that is already to much, try to eat one vegetarian meal per week instead. Something like that and then try to decrease the consumption of meat by simply buying less. That's what I did. I stopped buying animal products, but I eat them occasionally when I am invited by friends. This way I support myself already vegan and at the same time I avoid difficulties with and for friends.
When I'm not at home I look for vegan alternatives, if there are none, I try to find vegetarian alternatives and if there aren't any either, I allow myself to eat animal products, including meat before I stay hungry. This way I try to make a smoother transition until I will be able to abstain completely from animal products some day. You may try something similar for a transition to a vegetarian diet if you like.
Well, just some ideas... I hope it may help.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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tiltbillings
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by tiltbillings »

dhammacoustic wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:What does any of this have to do with eating animal alive?
The Buddha ate meat (according to you), yet he instructed people to abandon taking life. So, he either advocated eating them alive, or not eating them at all. Which one is it?
You might want to read the Jivaka Sutta.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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subaru
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by subaru »

dhammacoustic wrote:
subaru wrote:The Buddha was not a vegetarian.
he was a vegan.
Is that right? hmmm... ok gotta re-read Majjhima Nikaya 55, Jivaka Sutta again

Metta
:candle:
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seeker242
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by seeker242 »

Wanderer wrote:
It seems like such a huge change and one that I struggle to comprehend because it changes, well, the basis of my diet.

Looking forward to your replies! :)
One meal at a time makes it pretty easy. :smile:

So for lunch, rice and beans instead of meat. Pretty easy for that one meal.
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dhammacoustic
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by dhammacoustic »

subaru wrote:
dhammacoustic wrote:
subaru wrote:The Buddha was not a vegetarian.
he was a vegan.
Is that right? hmmm... ok gotta re-read Majjhima Nikaya 55, Jivaka Sutta again

Metta
Of course that is right, as there is no reference of him eating meat anywhere in the nikāyas nor in the Mahāyāna sūtras, and let's please keep 'accepting pork embellished with jujubes from Ugga of Vesālī out of compassion' out of the equation and let's 'believe' he allowed the monks, just for the sake of making ourselves feel better..

Nonetheless, in today's world where people can find all sorts of vegetables easily, there is no doubt that the Buddha would forbid eating meat, as he gradually discouraged it in his time.

:anjali:
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nekete
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by nekete »

I also think Buddha was a vegan.

Being a vegan is not to use animals for your own selfish benefit. So Buddha was a vegan. He was not a vegetarian and also not a non vegetarian.

I'm with Dhammaccoustic when he says that these days is in the 'first world' is really absurd to kill animals to eat them.

By the way, I thought there was a sutta where the Buddha was asked about being vegetarian and he answered the monks shouldn't be vegetarians. I'm really not agree with this answer.

He also was not happy with the idea of women being part of the Shanga at first, somebody had to convinced him. So, who knows, maybe nobody wanted to argue with him about animals. Who cared about animals life at that time?
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by DNS »

dhammacoustic wrote:
subaru wrote:The Buddha was not a vegetarian.
:goodpost: he was a vegan.
This has all been discussed at length in the great vegetarian debate, but for those who haven't seen my article here it is again:

Diet of Buddha

The Buddha ate 74% vegan
5% meat
21% lacto-ovo-vegetarian

So no not vegan, not vegetarian completely.
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Dhammanando
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by Dhammanando »

nekete wrote:By the way, I thought there was a sutta where the Buddha was asked about being vegetarian and he answered the monks shouldn't be vegetarians. I'm really not agree with this answer.
The Buddha didn't say that they shouldn't be vegetarian. Rather, he rejected Devadatta's request — a mischievously motivated one — that he make vegetarianism compulsory, reiterating the circumstances in which fish and flesh were permitted for monastics.

From the Vinaya Piṭaka's origin story for the 10th saṅghādisesa rule (a prohibition against initiating a schism in the saṅgha):

Book of the Discipline wrote:Then Devadatta approached Kokālika, Kaṭamorakatissaka, the son of the lady Khaṇḍā, and Samuddadatta, having approached, he spoke thus to Kokālika, Kaṭamorakatissaka, the son of the lady Khaṇḍā, and Samuddadatta: “Come, we, your reverences, will make a schism in the recluse Gotama’s Order, a breaking of the concord.” When he had spoken thus, Kokālika spoke thus to Devadatta:

“But, your reverence, the recluse Gotama is of great psychic power, of great might. How can we make a schism in the recluse Gotama’s Order, a breaking of the concord?”

“Come, we, your reverence, having approached the recluse Gotama, will ask for five items, saying: ‘Lord, the Lord in many a figure speaks in praise of desiring little, of being contented, of expunging (evil), of being punctilious, of what is gracious, of decrease (in the obstructions), of putting forth energy. Lord, these five items are in many a way conducive to desiring little, to contentment, to expunging (evil), to being punctilious, to what is gracious, to decrease (in the obstructions), to putting forth energy.

1. It were good, Lord, if the monks, for as long as life lasted, might be forest-dwellers; whoever should betake himself to the neighbourhood of a village, sin would besmirch him.
2. For as long as life lasts, let them be beggars for alms; whoever should accept an invitation, sin would besmirch him.
3. For as long as life lasts, let them be rag-robe wearers; whoever should accept a robe given by a householder, sin would besmirch him.
4. For as long as life lasts, let them live at the root of a tree; whoever should go under cover, sin would besmirch him.
5. For as long as life lasts, let them not eat fish and flesh; whoever should eat fish and flesh, sin would besmirch him.’

“The recluse Gotama will not allow these. Then we will win over the people by means of these five items.”

“It is possible, your reverence, with these five items, to make a schism in the recluse Gotama’s Order, a breaking of the concord. For, your reverence, people esteem austerity.”

Then Devadatta together with his friends approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, he sat down at a respectful distance. As he was sitting down at a respectful distance, Devadatta spoke thus to the Lord:

“Lord, the Lord in many a figure speaks in praise of desiring little … whoever should eat fish and flesh, sin would besmirch him.”

“Enough, Devadatta,” he said. “Whoever wishes, let him be a forest-dweller; whoever wishes, let him stay in the neighbourhood of a village; whoever wishes, let him be a beggar for alms; whoever wishes, let him accept an invitation; whoever wishes, let him be a rag-robe wearer; whoever wishes, let him accept a householder’s robes. For eight months, Devadatta, lodging at the root of a tree is permitted by me. Fish and flesh are pure in respect of three points: if they are not seen, heard or suspected (to have been killed on purpose for him).”

Then Devadatta, thinking: ‘The Lord does not permit these five items,’ joyful, elated, rising from his seat with his friends, having greeted the Lord, departed keeping his right side towards him. Then Devadatta, having entered Rājagaha with his friends, taught the people by means of the five items, saying: “We, friends, having approached the recluse Gotama, asked for five items, saying: ‘Lord, the Lord in many a figure speaks in praise of desiring little … whoever should eat fish and flesh, sin would besmirch him’. The recluse Gotama does not allow these five items, but we live undertaking these five items.”
(Translation by I. B. Horner)
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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nekete
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by nekete »

Dhammanando wrote:
nekete wrote:By the way, I thought there was a sutta where the Buddha was asked about being vegetarian and he answered the monks shouldn't be vegetarians. I'm really not agree with this answer.
The Buddha didn't say that they shouldn't be vegetarian. Rather, he rejected Devadatta's request — a mischievously motivated one — that he make vegetarianism compulsory, reiterating the circumstances in which fish and flesh were permitted for monastics.

From the Vinaya Piṭaka's origin story for the 10th saṅghādisesa rule (a prohibition against initiating a schism in the saṅgha):

Book of the Discipline wrote:Then Devadatta approached Kokālika, Kaṭamorakatissaka, the son of the lady Khaṇḍā, and Samuddadatta, having approached, he spoke thus to Kokālika, Kaṭamorakatissaka, the son of the lady Khaṇḍā, and Samuddadatta: “Come, we, your reverences, will make a schism in the recluse Gotama’s Order, a breaking of the concord.” When he had spoken thus, Kokālika spoke thus to Devadatta:

“But, your reverence, the recluse Gotama is of great psychic power, of great might. How can we make a schism in the recluse Gotama’s Order, a breaking of the concord?”

“Come, we, your reverence, having approached the recluse Gotama, will ask for five items, saying: ‘Lord, the Lord in many a figure speaks in praise of desiring little, of being contented, of expunging (evil), of being punctilious, of what is gracious, of decrease (in the obstructions), of putting forth energy. Lord, these five items are in many a way conducive to desiring little, to contentment, to expunging (evil), to being punctilious, to what is gracious, to decrease (in the obstructions), to putting forth energy.

1. It were good, Lord, if the monks, for as long as life lasted, might be forest-dwellers; whoever should betake himself to the neighbourhood of a village, sin would besmirch him.
2. For as long as life lasts, let them be beggars for alms; whoever should accept an invitation, sin would besmirch him.
3. For as long as life lasts, let them be rag-robe wearers; whoever should accept a robe given by a householder, sin would besmirch him.
4. For as long as life lasts, let them live at the root of a tree; whoever should go under cover, sin would besmirch him.
5. For as long as life lasts, let them not eat fish and flesh; whoever should eat fish and flesh, sin would besmirch him.’

“The recluse Gotama will not allow these. Then we will win over the people by means of these five items.”

“It is possible, your reverence, with these five items, to make a schism in the recluse Gotama’s Order, a breaking of the concord. For, your reverence, people esteem austerity.”

Then Devadatta together with his friends approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, he sat down at a respectful distance. As he was sitting down at a respectful distance, Devadatta spoke thus to the Lord:

“Lord, the Lord in many a figure speaks in praise of desiring little … whoever should eat fish and flesh, sin would besmirch him.”

“Enough, Devadatta,” he said. “Whoever wishes, let him be a forest-dweller; whoever wishes, let him stay in the neighbourhood of a village; whoever wishes, let him be a beggar for alms; whoever wishes, let him accept an invitation; whoever wishes, let him be a rag-robe wearer; whoever wishes, let him accept a householder’s robes. For eight months, Devadatta, lodging at the root of a tree is permitted by me. Fish and flesh are pure in respect of three points: if they are not seen, heard or suspected (to have been killed on purpose for him).”

Then Devadatta, thinking: ‘The Lord does not permit these five items,’ joyful, elated, rising from his seat with his friends, having greeted the Lord, departed keeping his right side towards him. Then Devadatta, having entered Rājagaha with his friends, taught the people by means of the five items, saying: “We, friends, having approached the recluse Gotama, asked for five items, saying: ‘Lord, the Lord in many a figure speaks in praise of desiring little … whoever should eat fish and flesh, sin would besmirch him’. The recluse Gotama does not allow these five items, but we live undertaking these five items.”
(Translation by I. B. Horner)
Thank you¡

I'm living in a Buddhist Theravada Monastery for two years and a half right now. Here the food is offered. Every day lay supporters bring food to the monastery, this food is for the monks, some times this food consists in fish or meat.

By the way, to talk about buddhism and vegetarianism I prefer the great vegetarian debate. :)
Wanderer
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by Wanderer »

acinteyyo wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Hello all,

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but I am curious how people that became Buddhists transitioned(if they weren't already) to vegetarianism.

It seems like such a huge change and one that I struggle to comprehend because it changes, well, the basis of my diet.

Looking forward to your replies! :)
Hey Wanderer,

I would recommend to do it step by step. I'm now in a transition from an omnivore diet to a vegan diet. I don't think it is a good idea to try to do it in an "all-or-nothing" type of way. From my experience those attempts usually fail in the long run.
I've never eaten much meat, so it was easy for me to let go of the little meat I ate. If you eat meat on a regular base, try to abstain from eating meat one day per week or if that is already to much, try to eat one vegetarian meal per week instead. Something like that and then try to decrease the consumption of meat by simply buying less. That's what I did. I stopped buying animal products, but I eat them occasionally when I am invited by friends. This way I support myself already vegan and at the same time I avoid difficulties with and for friends.
When I'm not at home I look for vegan alternatives, if there are none, I try to find vegetarian alternatives and if there aren't any either, I allow myself to eat animal products, including meat before I stay hungry. This way I try to make a smoother transition until I will be able to abstain completely from animal products some day. You may try something similar for a transition to a vegetarian diet if you like.
Well, just some ideas... I hope it may help.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense and I'd be a fish out of water if I went at it full bore. I'll have to look at recipes :)
We came from nothing and nothing is everything, so to lose everything is to lose nothing at all.
Wanderer
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Re: How did you transition your diet?

Post by Wanderer »

seeker242 wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
It seems like such a huge change and one that I struggle to comprehend because it changes, well, the basis of my diet.

Looking forward to your replies! :)
One meal at a time makes it pretty easy. :smile:

So for lunch, rice and beans instead of meat. Pretty easy for that one meal.
I am going to look up recipes. I love rice so that's one stage done!
We came from nothing and nothing is everything, so to lose everything is to lose nothing at all.
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