Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

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cooran
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Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by cooran » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:16 pm

This is NOT what we've previously been told about milk and calcium....

Guzzling milk may boost your risk of breaking bones.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... FK3wN1kmrU

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Mkoll
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Mkoll » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:36 am

It's probably safer to get calcium from greens.
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Herbie
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Herbie » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:15 am

Mkoll wrote:It's probably safer to get calcium from greens.
No. You have to differentiate between the different diary products and their content of phosphate. As to "safety" calcium dietary supplement is the safest method.
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Mkoll
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Mkoll » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:53 am

Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:It's probably safer to get calcium from greens.
No. You have to differentiate between the different diary products and their content of phosphate. As to "safety" calcium dietary supplement is the safest method.
So you think greens are unsafe? Certain greens are only unsafe if you have problems with oxalates, goitrogens, or other specific compounds. In which case you probably know which greens you have to avoid already.

And what do you mean by the phosphate content in dairy? What difference does that make? Please actually try explaining it rather than give one sentence and expect us to take it as gospel. Back your claims up.

And regarding supplements, there have been multiple studies associating their consumption with an increase in mortality so I would be wary of their "safety," especially if you're taking them without medical advice.
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Herbie
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Herbie » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:11 am

Mkoll wrote:
Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:It's probably safer to get calcium from greens.
No. You have to differentiate between the different diary products and their content of phosphate. As to "safety" calcium dietary supplement is the safest method.
So you think greens are unsafe? Certain greens are only unsafe if you have problems with oxalates, goitrogens, or other specific compounds. In which case you probably know which greens you have to avoid already.
"Greens" - and I am assuming that you are meaning vegetables - are unsafe in that their 1) their calcium content is too low and 2) even low content can only be found in some specific greens so that the probability is very high that you do not reach the daily amount needed (I am assuming that you rely on scientific advice as to daily amount needed)
Mkoll wrote:
Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:It's probably safer to get calcium from greens.
And what do you mean by the phosphate content in dairy? What difference does that make? Please actually try explaining it rather than give one sentence and expect us to take it as gospel. Back your claims up.
Calciumphosphate is insoluble and thus cannot be absorbed, so in the case of some diary products - and milk is one of these - the compounds calcium and phophate build insoluble precipitate in gastro-intestinal milieu.

Mkoll wrote: And regarding supplements, there have been multiple studies associating their consumption with an increase in mortality so I would be wary of their "safety," especially if you're taking them without medical advice.
In case of calcium if you follow the dosing instructions there is no problem.

BTW
As to milk there may be a more severe issue since there are publications referring to studies that claim evidence that there is a correlation between the quantity of milk consumed over longer periods of time and later incidence of prostate cancer.
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth. :smile:

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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Mkoll » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:39 am

Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
Herbie wrote:No. You have to differentiate between the different diary products and their content of phosphate. As to "safety" calcium dietary supplement is the safest method.
So you think greens are unsafe? Certain greens are only unsafe if you have problems with oxalates, goitrogens, or other specific compounds. In which case you probably know which greens you have to avoid already.
"Greens" - and I am assuming that you are meaning vegetables - are unsafe in that their 1) their calcium content is too low and 2) even low content can only be found in some specific greens so that the probability is very high that you do not reach the daily amount needed (I am assuming that you rely on scientific advice as to daily amount needed)
I was talking about greens being a safer source of calcium compared to milk; you seem to agree with that. I said nothing about getting the daily value solely from greens.
Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:And regarding supplements, there have been multiple studies associating their consumption with an increase in mortality so I would be wary of their "safety," especially if you're taking them without medical advice.
In case of calcium if you follow the dosing instructions there is no problem.
Again, that's a blanket claim I don't think you can make with a clear conscience. A quick look at wikipedia shows that studies are conflicting and one even shows that a "safe" amount can cause problems.
Wikipedia wrote:Persons consuming more than 10 grams/day of CaCO3 (=4 g Ca) are at risk of developing milk-alkali syndrome,[60] but the condition has been reported in at least one person consuming only 2.5 grams/day of CaCO3 (=1 g Ca), an amount usually considered moderate and safe.[61]
Herbie wrote:BTW
As to milk there may be a more severe issue since there are publications referring to studies that claim evidence that there is a correlation between the quantity of milk consumed over longer periods of time and later incidence of prostate cancer.
Yes. That means one should drink milk in moderation or not at all, IMO. Plenty of human populations have done just fine without consuming dairy products until recently, e.g. many East Asians.
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Herbie
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Herbie » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:23 am

Mkoll wrote:
Herbie wrote:"Greens" - and I am assuming that you are meaning vegetables - are unsafe in that their 1) their calcium content is too low and 2) even low content can only be found in some specific greens so that the probability is very high that you do not reach the daily amount needed (I am assuming that you rely on scientific advice as to daily amount needed)
I was talking about greens being a safer source of calcium compared to milk; you seem to agree with that. I said nothing about getting the daily value solely from greens.
As you can read I do not agree with your use of "safer".
Mkoll wrote:
Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:And regarding supplements, there have been multiple studies associating their consumption with an increase in mortality so I would be wary of their "safety," especially if you're taking them without medical advice.
In case of calcium if you follow the dosing instructions there is no problem.
Again, that's a blanket claim I don't think you can make with a clear conscience. A quick look at wikipedia shows that studies are conflicting and one even shows that a "safe" amount can cause problems.
Wikipedia wrote:Persons consuming more than 10 grams/day of CaCO3 (=4 g Ca) are at risk of developing milk-alkali syndrome,[60] but the condition has been reported in at least one person consuming only 2.5 grams/day of CaCO3 (=1 g Ca), an amount usually considered moderate and safe.[61]
Well it reads "Excessive consumption of calcium carbonate antacids/dietary supplements " so the following question have to be answered:
"in at least one person" of how may persons?
What was the portion calcium from carbonate antacids/dietary supplements and from regular food?
And what about the renal function of that one person?
For the time being until these questions are answered "In case of calcium if you follow the dosing instructions there is no problem" still is a valid statement assuming that the dosing instructions cover these aspects.
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth. :smile:

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seeker242
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by seeker242 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:38 pm

cooran wrote:This is NOT what we've previously been told about milk and calcium....
Not that surprising given the fact that most information we get about milk comes from people who make a living selling milk... Approximately 75% of the world population is naturally lactose intolerant. The inability to digest milk after weaning is considered the "genetic norm" of human beings. The ability to even digest milk is considered an abnormal genetic mutation. The idea that one needs to drink milk to have strong bones is nothing more than a sales pitch by sales people trying to make money!

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Mkoll
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Mkoll » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:50 pm

Herbie wrote:
Mkoll wrote:Again, that's a blanket claim I don't think you can make with a clear conscience. A quick look at wikipedia shows that studies are conflicting and one even shows that a "safe" amount can cause problems.
Wikipedia wrote:Persons consuming more than 10 grams/day of CaCO3 (=4 g Ca) are at risk of developing milk-alkali syndrome,[60] but the condition has been reported in at least one person consuming only 2.5 grams/day of CaCO3 (=1 g Ca), an amount usually considered moderate and safe.[61]
Well it reads "Excessive consumption of calcium carbonate antacids/dietary supplements " so the following question have to be answered:
"in at least one person" of how may persons?
What was the portion calcium from carbonate antacids/dietary supplements and from regular food?
And what about the renal function of that one person?
For the time being until these questions are answered "In case of calcium if you follow the dosing instructions there is no problem" still is a valid statement assuming that the dosing instructions cover these aspects.
Now you're modifying your earlier statement with additional stipulations: it's safe if rather than saying it's safe period.

The gist of my point in responding to you is that people who are interested in calcium supplementation should at least see their doctor about it before taking calcium supplements based on advice from the internet from someone saying they're "safe." If you had said something like, "Calcium supplements are likely to be safe if you're healthy but you should probably see a doctor before taking them regularly," I would have said nothing or agreed.
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Digity
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Digity » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:39 pm

When it comes to develop bone strength I've always thought weightlifting was the best approach and not necessarily consuming tons of calcium.

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Mkoll
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Re: Lots of milk may INCREASE risk of bone fractures

Post by Mkoll » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:11 pm

Digity wrote:When it comes to develop bone strength I've always thought weightlifting was the best approach and not necessarily consuming tons of calcium.
Doing both in moderation would be better. And even better than that would be to also do a light to moderate amount of impact exercises.
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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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