The cholesterol myth

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DNS
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by DNS » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:08 pm

Mr Man wrote:So this is nonsense? http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/cond ... terol.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No, it is not nonsense. The science has examined this for several decades and has concluded successfully that high cholesterol amounts (LDL) result in higher risk of cardiovascular disease.
It seems that for every medical condition (and medication) we can find differing viewpoints. Our research normally takes us to views which match our own ideas/hopes/opinions.
This is true. That is why it best to look at all the studies and make our own conclusions. Another way of examining a controversial issue with differing studies is to look at the weight, quantity, and quality of the studies. Sometimes just adding up the amount of studies on one side and comparing it to the amount of studies concluding the opposite. And then it is also important to look at the quality of the studies and how rigorous they are to scientific method.

My father would say, "consider the source." When we look at one of the links provided by Alex123 we see: http://www.ravnskov.nu/myth1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; where you can see the amateurish nature of that site. And also how he quotes himself as a reference several times. Also the dot nu domain name. This domain name is for the island nation of Niuē, population of 1,398. It is not even a dot com website. :D

When you consider the quality and quantity of studies, in my assessment, it is clearly on the side that high LDL cholesterol is bad for you. I would not recommend anyone to go out and eat some bacon cheeseburgers to be "healthy." And no, I am not picking on meat eating omnivores. A vegetarian can have high cholesterol too, if they eat too much dairy and eggs and/or fried foods. And there are vegetarians with heart troubles too, for those that eat high fat diets.

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Alex123
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by Alex123 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:15 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:This is true. That is why it best to look at all the studies and make our own conclusions.
This is correct. Some large business people create a scare and then sell us expensive drugs that also put us at risk of severe side effects.

I can find much better links if you want.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... sease.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Your Cholesterol is Too Low...

All kinds of nasty things can happen to your body. Remember, every single one of your cells needs cholesterol to thrive -- including those in your brain. Perhaps this is why low cholesterol wreaks havoc on your psyche.

One large study conducted by Dutch researchers found that men with chronically low cholesterol levels showed a consistently higher risk of having depressive symptoms.4

This may be because cholesterol affects the metabolism of serotonin, a substance involved in the regulation of your mood. On a similar note, Canadian researchers found that those in the lowest quarter of total cholesterol concentration had more than six times the risk of committing suicide as did those in the highest quarter.5

Dozens of studies also support a connection between low or lowered cholesterol levels and violent behavior, through this same pathway: lowered cholesterol levels may lead to lowered brain serotonin activity, which may, in turn, lead to increased violence and aggression.6

And one meta-analysis of over 41,000 patient records found that people who take statin drugs to lower their cholesterol as much as possible may have a higher risk of cancer,7 while other studies have linked low cholesterol to Parkinson's disease.

What cholesterol level is too low? Brace yourself.

Probably any level much under 150 -- an optimum would be more like 200.

Now I know what you are thinking: "But my doctor tells me my cholesterol needs to be under 200 to be healthy."Well let me enlighten you about how these cholesterol recommendations came to be. And I warn you, it is not a pretty story.

This is a significant issue. I have seen large numbers of people who have their cholesterol lowered below 150, and there is little question in my mind that it is causing far more harm than any benefit they are receiving by lowering their cholesterol this low.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... mbers.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by BubbaBuddhist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:29 pm

The magic word is CHOLINE. :P this is the nutrient found in cholesterol that promotes serotonin production/reuptake and neuron efficiency in the brain, kidney function, cell membrane vitality and liver health. So if you want the best of both worlds take a choline supplement and keep your cholesterol down. At least until the next battery of reports come out and assure us all that giant squid is the healthiest food in the universe. What was it last year--krill? My aquatic frogs used to love krill, no wonder they were so fat and sassy. :juggling:

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Mr Man
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by Mr Man » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:30 pm

Alex123 wrote:
Mr Man wrote:So this is nonsense? http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/cond ... terol.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That link recommends statins (rather than exercise, good diet, multivitamins, etc from which big Pharma cannot make money).

Are you sure you read it?

danieLion
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by danieLion » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:51 pm

Consuming cholesterol does NOTHING to cholesterol levels.

YOUR BODY MAKES ALL ITS OWN CHOLESTEROL and DOES NOT USE ANY CHOLESTEROL YOU EAT. Talking about what consuming cholesterol does to your cholesterol levels is nonsense.

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:56 pm

danieLion wrote:Consuming cholesterol does NOTHING to cholesterol levels.

YOUR BODY MAKES ALL ITS OWN CHOLESTEROL and DOES NOT USE ANY CHOLESTEROL YOU EAT. Talking about what consuming cholesterol does to your cholesterol levels is nonsense.
Two things: don't yell, and what actual support do you have for this.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by danieLion » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:06 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote:Consuming cholesterol does NOTHING to cholesterol levels.

YOUR BODY MAKES ALL ITS OWN CHOLESTEROL and DOES NOT USE ANY CHOLESTEROL YOU EAT. Talking about what consuming cholesterol does to your cholesterol levels is nonsense.
Two things: don't yell, and what actual support do you have for this.
The nutrition science class I took as an undergrad. She said when you're done with this class you'll know more about nutrition than most doctors. So the problem here is that too many of us believe what our doctors tell us without thinking for ourselves.


Your body uses substances in the fat and protein you consume to manufacture its own cholesterol.

Why do you think I'm yelling? I typed that in silence.
Your body, mainly your liver, produces 75 percent of your cholesterol; your small intestine also aids in both the creation and absorption of cholesterol. The average diet adds another 300 to 500 mg of cholesterol. This external cholesterol comes from animal and dairy products. But even if you eat foods without cholesterol, the carbs, fats and proteins all break down eventually and release carbon, which your liver turns into cholesterol.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/disease ... terol1.htm
Cholesterol is the principal sterol synthesized by animals; in vertebrates it is formed predominantly in the liver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol

So that's three sources: my professor, Discovery Health, and Wikipedia. Do you want more?

PS: What's the opposite of "actual"?

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tiltbillings
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:29 pm

danieLion wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote:Consuming cholesterol does NOTHING to cholesterol levels.

YOUR BODY MAKES ALL ITS OWN CHOLESTEROL and DOES NOT USE ANY CHOLESTEROL YOU EAT. Talking about what consuming cholesterol does to your cholesterol levels is nonsense.
Two things: don't yell, and what actual support do you have for this.
The nutrition science class I took as an undergrad. She said when you're done with this class you'll know more about nutrition than most doctors. So the problem here is that too many of us believe what our doctors tell us without thinking for ourselves.


Your body uses substances in the fat and protein you consume to manufacture its own cholesterol.
Changed your msg, I see.
Why do you think I'm yelling? I typed that in silence.
TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS THE ONLINE SAME AS OF YELLING.
Your body, mainly your liver, produces 75 percent of your cholesterol; your small intestine also aids in both the creation and absorption of cholesterol. The average diet adds another 300 to 500 mg of cholesterol. This external cholesterol comes from animal and dairy products. But even if you eat foods without cholesterol, the carbs, fats and proteins all break down eventually and release carbon, which your liver turns into cholesterol.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/disease ... terol1.htm
In other words your initial claim, which you deleted, was wrong.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

danieLion
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by danieLion » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:37 pm

tiltbillings wrote:In other words your initial claim, which you deleted, was wrong.
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't change or delete anything (although I would change "ANY" to "MOST IF NOT ALL"). I think you need to re-read it. Again, nothing was changed or deleted, so I don't know where you get this.

Benefits of Cholesterol: http://cholesterol.about.com/lw/Health- ... d-For-.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, changing our minds (or revising claims as we go) is SCIENTIFIC (typed in silence).

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:45 pm

danieLion wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:In other words your initial claim, which you deleted, was wrong.
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't change or delete anything (although I would change "ANY" to "MOST IF NOT ALL"). I think you need to re-read it. Again, nothing was changed or deleted, so I don't know where you get this.

Benefits of Cholesterol: http://cholesterol.about.com/lw/Health- ... d-For-.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, changing our minds (or revising claims as we go) is SCIENTIFIC (typed in silence).
Yep. My apologies. You are correct, the problematic bit is all still there:

YOUR BODY MAKES ALL ITS OWN CHOLESTEROL and DOES NOT USE ANY CHOLESTEROL YOU EAT. Talking about what consuming cholesterol does to your cholesterol levels is nonsense.

By the fact of what you quoted, I'd ask for your money back from your nutrition class:

Your body, mainly your liver, produces 75 percent of your cholesterol; your small intestine also aids in both the creation and absorption of cholesterol. The average diet adds another 300 to 500 mg of cholesterol. This external cholesterol comes from animal and dairy products.

Your all caps statement is obviously wrong.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

danieLion
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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by danieLion » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:50 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:In other words your initial claim, which you deleted, was wrong.
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't change or delete anything (although I would change "ANY" to "MOST IF NOT ALL"). I think you need to re-read it. Again, nothing was changed or deleted, so I don't know where you get this.

Benefits of Cholesterol: http://cholesterol.about.com/lw/Health- ... d-For-.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, changing our minds (or revising claims as we go) is SCIENTIFIC (typed in silence).
Yep. My apologies. You are correct, the problematic bit is all still there:

YOUR BODY MAKES ALL ITS OWN CHOLESTEROL and DOES NOT USE ANY CHOLESTEROL YOU EAT. Talking about what consuming cholesterol does to your cholesterol levels is nonsense.

By the fact of what you quoted, I'd ask for your money back from your nutrition class:

Your body, mainly your liver, produces 75 percent of your cholesterol; your small intestine also aids in both the creation and absorption of cholesterol. The average diet adds another 300 to 500 mg of cholesterol. This external cholesterol comes from animal and dairy products.

Your all caps statement is obviously wrong.
The study I just cited says 85% and notes that even that's controversial. She's head of the nutrition department of a large hospital and educates doctors on nutrition, so I will not ask for my money back. Besides, don't blame her for my mistakes.

Revised "claim": cholesterol in food is neglible.
Benifit: to control blood levels, reduce fat and protein intake and don't worry about cholesterol in food (and exercise).

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:55 pm

danieLion wrote: The study I just cited says 85% and notes that even that's controversial. She's head of the nutrition department of a large hospital and educates doctors on nutrition, so I will not ask for my money back. Besides, don't blame her for my mistakes.
Then maybe she needs to revise yoiur grade downwards.
Revised "claim": cholesterol in food is neglible.
Benifit: to control blood levels, reduce fat and protein intake and don't worry about cholesterol in food (and exercise).
"Negligible" might be an overstatement.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by danieLion » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:24 am

Tilt,
I'm not making claims. I'm exploring ideas.

Why would she need to revise my grade? That's ludicrous, not to mention rude and ad hominem.

85% is not neglible. Plus, you throw the criticsisms of the validity of cholesterol testing into the mix and you have a very untrustworthy measure with little utility.

We yearn (crave) for authority, and doctors come off as authorities. But medicine is not a science, and if you know how to think for yourself, you won't fall for their crap (or be dazzled by their egotistical manners). When our sacred cows are slain, it always hurts.

If people start investigating the cholesterol claims for themselves they'll be less likely to pay to go the doctor office (in actuality, a pharmaceutical store) or pay for a pill to lower their cholesterol. So it's in the financial interest of doctors and pharmaceutical companies to get you to believe in their opinions about cholesterol. And the food industry wants you to believe it too, otherwise they could't get you to buy low cholesterol foods.

As Buddhists we should be more sceptical of any opinion connected to profit, as that's the first inidication we might be the victims of greed.

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:21 am

danieLion wrote:Tilt,
I'm not making claims. I'm exploring ideas.

Why would she need to revise my grade? That's ludicrous, not to mention rude and ad hominem.
As Foghorn Leghorn would say: "It was a joke, son, a joke."
. . .
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Re: The cholesterol myth

Post by danieLion » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:29 am

tiltbillings wrote:"Negligible" might be an overstatement.
What actual support do you have for this?

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