Physical exercise and depression.

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Alobha
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by Alobha »

daverupa wrote:
Variable control is to be lauded; we can now remove exercise as a significant variable in favor of a focus on others: sunshine, company, mobility (qua motion, not exertion), etc. Such is the progress of a scientific understanding.
Instead of sweaty bodies, psychotherapy could go for clean minds with meditation ;)
There are studies that suggest that meditation may be as effective as medication in some cases, so that's a way that will hopefully get more public attention in the future. (although i'd be interested in finding out about some combined-treatment studies with medication+meditation vs. medication vs meditation vs placebo. Gotta do some research when i find the time :D )
danieLion wrote: It's called scientificating and its caused by researchers who believe they're practicing science when in fact they're engaged in scientism. You can usually spot these types by their use of phrases like "statistically significant."
You may not like it, but it is usually better to have empirical studies, data and statistical tests than just having a wild guess or trusting someone's guts as a basis for making decisions regarding large populations.
danieLion
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by danieLion »

Alobha wrote:
danieLion wrote: It's called scientificating and its caused by researchers who believe they're practicing science when in fact they're engaged in scientism. You can usually spot these types by their use of phrases like "statistically significant."
You may not like it, but it is usually better to have empirical studies, data and statistical tests than just having a wild guess or trusting someone's guts as a basis for making decisions regarding large populations.
Depends on what you mean by "empirical" and "data", and which statistical test you use, etc.... There are many more alternatives than the two you postulate.
metta
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ground
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by ground »

Sam Vega wrote:Some people might be interested in the findings of a scientific study which appears to prove that physical exercise has little or no effect upon depression.
However temporarily it may help due to appropriate central nervous transmitters being produced by the body. which is why some get addicted to physical exercise.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by Sam Vara »

It might be helpful for people to read the study, and if possible to reflect a bit on how such studies work. There is nothing in the study which suggests that one should give up physical exercise if one finds it helpful, or take it up if one wants to try it out. It is acknowledged that there are short-term improvements of mood, probably attributable to endogenous opioids such as endorphins. It is acknowledged that there are numerous other benefits to physical health, such as protection of the cardio-vascular system. And exercise regimes which involve other people will probably benefit patients due to the social contact, etc. It makes no claims about the well-being which people who are not depressed can gain from exercise. People reading it would probably be aware that there will be exceptions to the statistical generalities which it deals in.

What the study does is to demonstrate that there are no significant long-term clinical benefits to patients arising from the exercise alone. It does this with a degree of scientific rigour which (we are told) is comparable to trials of chemical medication. As such, it refines our understanding of what works.

I therefore think this study is to be lauded on two accounts. First, it allows people to make more informed choices about what they want to do in order to help themselves. There is a danger that all findings and advice that are initially well-founded slip gradually into a form of "folk wisdom", in this case along the lines of "exercise cures depression". This and similar studies preserve the well-founded aspects, and eliminate some of the less helpful bits. Second, on-line discussions about the study have revealed a lot of frustration that chronically depressed patients feel with the idea that exercise is some type of panacea for their condition. Some have felt like failures because they cannot exercise, or think they cannot exercise to the intensity which will enable them to shed their problem. Some felt as if doctors had absorbed some of that "folk wisdom" and were recommending exercise because it was cheap and they had run out of other options.

I don't have any particular axe to grind over this issue, as I and my loved ones do not suffer from depression. Personally, I will continue to exercise because it makes me feel good, and hopefully it will keep the body staggering on a bit longer than otherwise. The study does not address people like me. But I find it interesting because - subject to the usual caveats attending all such research - it helps us understand the world a bit better and to clarify what helps.
JohnGold
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by JohnGold »

I think physical exercise deduce tension, frustration and depression. :console:
daverupa
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by daverupa »

JohnGold wrote:I think physical exercise deduce tension, frustration and depression. :console:
Reduce, yes. Deduce, induce, no.

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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retrofuturist
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Actually, I wouldn't be so quick to write-off induce.

Exercise sucks - it induces pain - pain is dukkha. :lol:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
danieLion
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by danieLion »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Actually, I wouldn't be so quick to write-off induce.

Exercise sucks - it induces pain - pain is dukkha. :lol:

Metta,
Retro. :)
But it induces even more sukkha.
Sumangalo
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by Sumangalo »

Exercise that leaves me gasping for air is a sure way for me to reset my mood. It never fails to lift my depression and leave me in a state of peace.
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Annapurna
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by Annapurna »

Mens sana in corpore sano.
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Annapurna
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by Annapurna »

Oh, ooops, I think I should translate, --that's Latin, and means :

A healthy mind in a healthy body.
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DAWN
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by DAWN »

Today i was in some neurophisiological conferention, and scientific that was here said that sport is helpfull with depression, but endorphines (that make us feel pleasure, and by this, help with depression) are produced by organism only after a very fast sprint, or a long intence physical exercice.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Sam Vara
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by Sam Vara »

DAWN wrote:Today i was in some neurophisiological conferention, and scientific that was here said that sport is helpfull with depression, but endorphines (that make us feel pleasure, and by this, help with depression) are produced by organism only after a very fast sprint, or a long intence physical exercice.
Check out my original post, and my June 8th post.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Daniel,
danieLion wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Actually, I wouldn't be so quick to write-off induce.

Exercise sucks - it induces pain - pain is dukkha. :lol:

Metta,
Retro. :)
But it induces even more sukkha.
Does it? I guess experience is subjective... mileage may vary.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
danieLion
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Re: Physical exercise and depression.

Post by danieLion »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Daniel,
danieLion wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Actually, I wouldn't be so quick to write-off induce.

Exercise sucks - it induces pain - pain is dukkha. :lol:

Metta,
Retro. :)
But it induces even more sukkha.
Does it? I guess experience is subjective... mileage may vary.

Metta,
Retro. :)
It's like meditation. You have to do it long enough consistently and in the right way to see results.
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