Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

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DooDoot
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by DooDoot » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:23 pm

markandeya wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:46 pm
The closest thing I can find within the tradition to depression would be perhaps sloth and torpor.
I imagine "depression" falls into soka­ pari­deva­ duk­kha­ do­manas­sa upāyāsā (sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair); that is often caused by different forms of craving; such as not getting what the organism wants or needs.
markandeya wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:46 pm
Within Buddhism and other Yogas systems I have literally seen miracles in the transformation powers when the methods are applied properly.
I haven't (and I spent years working in a very large meditation centre that was part of seekers travels in Asia; so I met thousands of people who were practising in different places thoughout Asia). But i have seen a few very unhappy and confused individuals put in lots of hard work and come good; even now ordained as bhikkhu and bhikkuni for many years. But I have never seen any "miracles".

SarathW
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by SarathW » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:53 am

I imagine "depression" falls into soka­ pari­deva­ duk­kha­ do­manas­sa upāyāsā (sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair); that is often caused by different forms of craving; such as not getting what the organism wants or needs.
:goodpost:


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21543&hilit=
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

markandeya
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by markandeya » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:02 am

I imagine "depression" falls into soka­ pari­deva­ duk­kha­ do­manas­sa upāyāsā (sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair); that is often caused by different forms of craving; such as not getting what the organism wants or needs.
That works too, although Dukkha is different from depression or stress, usually people who have depression find it hard to get out of bed or find any form of motivation, it does seem to be in a category of its own and may not be defined exactly in the texts.
I haven't (and I spent years working in a very large meditation centre that was part of seekers travels in Asia; so I met thousands of people who were practising in different places thoughout Asia). But i have seen a few very unhappy and confused individuals put in lots of hard work and come good; even now ordained as bhikkhu and bhikkuni for many years. But I have never seen any "miracles"
It would depend on what your expectation is of a miracle, if a person can transform from what they see as hopeless or fixed position then I would consider that as a miracle of transformation. So coming good i would consider a marvel or miracle and wondrous of the power of the teachings.

Mostly I tend to see the whole of life in miraculous terms, or with a sense of wonder. A seed can produce a tree, even in the ordinary if its studied with some mindfullness and non judgmental conceptual awareness everything is a miracle, it depends on the state of mind. how the body works is a miracle, how food is digested and turned into energy and consciousness is miracle of nature, there are many things that happen by their own laws that are outside of human control.

To give some ordinary examples, many people have been cured from heroin addiction where everything else failed by practices and support of sanghas, terminal illness through systems such as pancha karma. People have gained so much benefits from the discoveries of the enlightened, to transcend karma and mind conditions is also a miracle or a wonder and the power of the teachings.

Digity
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by Digity » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:48 pm

I think Western society is sick and the way it tries to treat mental issues through medicating is backwards. That's why people in the West seek out alternatives like Buddhism for mental well-being. However, I often think you need to get your act together before really delving into Buddhism. You need to have a solid foundation before diving deep into the practice. That being said, I still think there's a lot of value to the practice while you get your foundation more steady.

The net result is that you end up with people struggling mentally in these communities. They're probably torn and confused between the values of Buddhism and those of the West. I think the problem is when these people try to get deeper into the practice without having sorting themselves out first. It's something called "spiritual bypassing" and it's a real issue in these communities.

binocular
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by binocular » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am

markandeya wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok Thanks, I think you misunderstood everything.
Oh, yes: The first rule of spirituality: blame others.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

markandeya
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by markandeya » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:51 am

binocular wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am
markandeya wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok Thanks, I think you misunderstood everything.
Oh, yes: The first rule of spirituality: blame others.

i was not blaming you for you anything, its just that we were talking about different things.

binocular
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by binocular » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:50 pm

markandeya wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:51 am
binocular wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am
markandeya wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok Thanks, I think you misunderstood everything.
Oh, yes: The first rule of spirituality: blame others.
i was not blaming you for you anything, its just that we were talking about different things.
You didn't say that. You said you thought that I misunderstood everything.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

markandeya
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by markandeya » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:00 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:50 pm
markandeya wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:51 am
binocular wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:28 am

Oh, yes: The first rule of spirituality: blame others.
i was not blaming you for you anything, its just that we were talking about different things.
You didn't say that. You said you thought that I misunderstood everything.

Just to try and make you feel better what I meant was that you misunderstood everything I was saying.

Why are you so concerned. You follow the faith based system I dont. Its not that important.

I think I gradually understanding why practitioners and followers of Theravada in west suffer from depression and emotional imbalance.

What can be the solution ?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:14 pm

markandeya wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:00 pm
I think I gradually understanding why practitioners and followers of Theravada in west suffer from depression and emotional imbalance.

What can be the solution ?
Nibbana, for sure! :tongue:

auto
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Re: Theravadin Monks, lay community and depression

Post by auto » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:58 pm

https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/ ... Verses.htm
Ahaṁ kevaṭṭagāmasmiṁ ahuṁ kevaṭṭadārako
(Before) I was a fisherman's son in a fisherman's village

Macchake ghātite disvā janayiṁ somanassakaṁ; [86]
Having seen fish being killed it produced a little happiness;

Tena kammavipākena sīsadukkhaṁ ahū mama,
Through that deed and through its result I had a (great) pain in my head,

Sabbe Sakkā ca haññiṁsu yadā hani Viḍūḍabho. 12 [87]
And all the Sakyans were killed when they were slain by Viḍūḍabha.
One possibility is past deeds and their results. One of the reason why budhism is good is that if you hit your head its because of past deed.
Phussassāhaṁ pāvacane sāvake paribhāsayiṁ:
I blamed the teachings and disciples of (Buddha) Phussa (saying):

“Yavaṁ khādatha bhuñjatha, mā ca bhuñjatha sālayo”; [88]
“You should eat and enjoy barley, you should not enjoy this fine rice;”

Tena kammavipākena temāsaṁ khāditaṁ yavaṁ
Through that deed and its result for three months I ate (only) barley

Nimantito brāhmaṇena Verañjāyaṁ vasiṁ tadā. [89]
When invited by the brahmin to dwell (three months) in Verañjā.
backpain,
Nibbuddhe vattamānamhi mallaputtaṁ niheṭhayiṁ;
Once while I was wrestling I badly injured another wrestler;

Tena kammavipākena piṭṭhidukkhaṁ ahū mama. [90]
Through that deed and through its result I suffered a pain in my back.

deeds are never destroyed without a result
Rājāhaṁ pattiko āsiṁ sattiyā purise haniṁ;
(When) I was a King (going round) on foot I killed men with my sword;

Tena kammavipākena Niraye paccisiṁ bhusaṁ, [84]
Through that deed and its result I suffered much in Niraya hell,

Kammuno tassa sesena, idāni sakalaṁ mama
Through the remainder of that deed, at this time all the (unbroken)

Pāde chaviṁ pakappesi 11 – na hi kammaṁ vinassati. [85]
Skin on my foot was cut – deeds are never destroyed (without result).

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