Anxiety

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aflatun
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Re: Anxiety

Post by aflatun » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 pm

DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm
Thanks Aflatun, that’s sound advice, I’ve tried focusing on some deep breathing at the abdominal area and it does seem to help, but my efforts had been sporadic, I’ll try a little more in line with your advice.
I'm glad you noticed it helps, its just hard to remember, particularly when the stress hits. For me its not only useful physiologically in the manner we've been discussing, but can also take you elsewhere, as the breathing body is not only "always now" and as such a great way to stay out of distraction (which can rapidly turn into anxious rumination), but it's always there determining your experience of whatever else you're engaged in (the latter point is a big deal for Ven. Ñāṇamoli)
DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm
The bit on keeping meditating with your eyes open and fixed on empty space, why do you recommend that?
I do this for a variety of other reasons that are beyond the scope of the thread (happy to discuss just don't want to muddy the waters), but I stumbled onto it a long time ago. By "it" I mean the fact that resting my gaze like that promoted calm and clarity, whether I was looking at something or not (and I'm not talking about zoning out!). Then I found out how important "eyes open" is in Chan and Vajrayana and I was intrigued, and inspired to stop resisting the urge to keep them open :).

So I'm not sure why, but for me something about eyes open and relaxed is really calming and centering, similar to the diaphragmatic breathing. I've heard a small handful of others say the same, so I thought it might be of use to you.
DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm
As an aside I’ve recently been drawn to Bhikkhu Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli teachings and Ñāṇavīra Thera. I’ve looked through Ñāṇavīra Thera‘s Clearing the Path and read Bhikkhu Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli essays, and for the first time since starting practising I’ve found a way of approaching the Dhamma that feels right for me. There’s a lot of terminology I don’t fully understand yet but the way I was approaching before just felt to dry. How do you find their approach, perhaps you can articulate it better as you’ve followed them longer.
Good for you! I'm a huge fan, and I encourage you to try go back and forth with the audio like binocular said as it tends to be less technical and in the form of conversations with students, so it can help clarify the more abstract philosophical writing. Also make sure to check out Ven. Ariyavaṃsa as his writing style is unbelievably clear IMO. If you have any questions, terminological or otherwise, definitely ask pulga and SDC... if you want the B team, you're welcome to ask me :tongue:
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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SDC
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Re: Anxiety

Post by SDC » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:14 am

aflatun wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 pm
If you have any questions, terminological or otherwise, definitely ask pulga and SDC... if you want the B team, you're welcome to ask me :tongue:
Well, I'm surely B, possibly C-squad when it comes the western philosophical end of things so don't go selling yourself too short. :console:

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Polar Bear
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Re: Anxiety

Post by Polar Bear » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:03 am

Given what you’ve said I think it probably isn’t a spinal problem but nevertheless it could be a contributing factor. I had an acute pain in my upper rib cage that I thought was from a muscle I pulled their once but it turned to be a spinal problem and getting my back adjusted and doing a couple of other chiropractic things fixed it. In any event, unless the chiropractor is horrible, it wouldn’t hurt to see one and get adjusted twice a week for a month or more and see if that helps at all. You might consider a chiropractic consultation and see what they think. I wish you luck in finding a remedy to your ailment.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Anxiety

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:09 am

aflatun wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 pm
DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm
Thanks Aflatun, that’s sound advice, I’ve tried focusing on some deep breathing at the abdominal area and it does seem to help, but my efforts had been sporadic, I’ll try a little more in line with your advice.
I'm glad you noticed it helps, its just hard to remember, particularly when the stress hits. For me its not only useful physiologically in the manner we've been discussing, but can also take you elsewhere, as the breathing body is not only "always now" and as such a great way to stay out of distraction (which can rapidly turn into anxious rumination), but it's always there determining your experience of whatever else you're engaged in ...
I've just read the whole thread, comparing the advice already given with what I might have said. Most of it is very good but to me, this is the real key point: anchoring yourself in here-and-now by staying in touch with your breath stops the "what-if" anxiety cycle very effectively, and noticing when your breathing gets tighter or faster is a good early-warning system of anxiety, too.
I have been doing yoga regularly for a few years now and it likewise emphasises awareness of the breath and the benefits of slow, smooth, relaxed abdominal breathing. It also leads (for me, at least) to a more global body awareness, so that I pick up on (e.g.) shoulder tension earlier than I would have done pre-yoga, and that's useful too. It might be something to think about when awareness of the breath is well established.

:namaste:
Kim

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Pondera
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Re: Anxiety

Post by Pondera » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:50 am

From personal experience.

It could be supernatural. There’s no discounting the menacing nature of Mara and his horde - if you believe in that stuff. However,

Anxiety is definitely a “what if” phenomenon as Kim mentions. It’s also a “responsibility” phenomenon - a sort of “I don’t want to ...” in the face of obligations.

So, oddly enough - i’d recommend releasing any tension from the bottom of your heart and releasing tension from the ligatures in your sacroiliac area.

A word of caution. Relaxing the sacroiliac will release profuse amounts of darkness causing immense angst. However, after it is gone there will remain no more - and you can do this as often as you need to.

Sounds crazy - but like I said - this is my personal experience and victory over free floating angst in the heart (heaviness, lightness - however you try to describe it - ie. “stress”; “dukkha “).
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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No_Mind
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Re: Anxiety

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:21 am

Anxiety would sooner or later lead to heart problem. What is your blood pressure? Have you had an echocardiogram (not ECG or EKG) to check the insides of your heart and ventricular output? Have you had a treadmill test?

You wrote
"The pain with stress is around 3 out of 10 and without stress around 1 out of 10, but this is constant. I used to suffer quite badly from anxiety and although that has dissipated some what it is still dormant and can arise every so often.

I had a panic attack 3 years ago and had a check up in hospital which showed everything okay on the ECG and Echo, although I do sometimes have palpitations.

I have had other tests recently as it bugging me and they have come back all clear."
A suggestion .. as far as I know and I maybe wrong .. in UK you have NHS which offers you a doctor of their choice .. the doctor who told you everything is fine .. what is his age and qualification .. MBBS and then MD/DM in cardiology? Since NHS is free you cannot say I do not want to be treated by the guy who came 30th in a class of 50 .. I want the guy who came first or second. In Britain a MD has a doctorate in medicine. Do not take word of anyone other than someone who is at least MD. Experience matters in medicine .. young doctors are likely to make wrong judgement .. doctors between 50 and 70 are the best.

Please consult an expensive cardiologist .. someone with 1/2 FRCPs after his name and at least 25 years experience (making him at least 55 years old). In the long run it will pay off.

Once you develop some sort of arrythmia (irregular heartbeat) or ischemia (dead heart muscles) due to stress it stays with you for your life.

Take it seriously. Ask a doctor if it is safe for you to do medium exercise (such as brisk walking 5 kms daily)

Best of luck,

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

DCM
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Location: Wales, UK

Re: Anxiety

Post by DCM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:07 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:21 am
Anxiety would sooner or later lead to heart problem. What is your blood pressure? Have you had an echocardiogram (not ECG or EKG) to check the insides of your heart and ventricular output? Have you had a treadmill test?

You wrote
"The pain with stress is around 3 out of 10 and without stress around 1 out of 10, but this is constant. I used to suffer quite badly from anxiety and although that has dissipated some what it is still dormant and can arise every so often.

I had a panic attack 3 years ago and had a check up in hospital which showed everything okay on the ECG and Echo, although I do sometimes have palpitations.

I have had other tests recently as it bugging me and they have come back all clear."
A suggestion .. as far as I know and I maybe wrong .. in UK you have NHS which offers you a doctor of their choice .. the doctor who told you everything is fine .. what is his age and qualification .. MBBS and then MD/DM in cardiology? Since NHS is free you cannot say I do not want to be treated by the guy who came 30th in a class of 50 .. I want the guy who came first or second. In Britain a MD has a doctorate in medicine. Do not take word of anyone other than someone who is at least MD. Experience matters in medicine .. young doctors are likely to make wrong judgement .. doctors between 50 and 70 are the best.

Please consult an expensive cardiologist .. someone with 1/2 FRCPs after his name and at least 25 years experience (making him at least 55 years old). In the long run it will pay off.

Once you develop some sort of arrythmia (irregular heartbeat) or ischemia (dead heart muscles) due to stress it stays with you for your life.

Take it seriously. Ask a doctor if it is safe for you to do medium exercise (such as brisk walking 5 kms daily)

Best of luck,

:namaste:
Hi No_Mind, yes I’ve had the echocardiogram and tred mill test, and they showed no problems. I’ve seen 3 different doctors and they say I’m very fit and healthy. I need to understand the stress more and try lessen it bit by bit or it will kill me.

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No_Mind
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Re: Anxiety

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:08 pm

DCM wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:07 pm
Hi No_Mind, yes I’ve had the echocardiogram and tred mill test, and they showed no problems. I’ve seen 3 different doctors and they say I’m very fit and healthy. I need to understand the stress more and try lessen it bit by bit or it will kill me.
That is excellent. I would suggest exercise. It releases hormones that make us happy and is the best anxiety buster around

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

DCM
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Location: Wales, UK

Re: Anxiety

Post by DCM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:31 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:08 pm
DCM wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:07 pm
Hi No_Mind, yes I’ve had the echocardiogram and tred mill test, and they showed no problems. I’ve seen 3 different doctors and they say I’m very fit and healthy. I need to understand the stress more and try lessen it bit by bit or it will kill me.
That is excellent. I would suggest exercise. It releases hormones that make us happy and is the best anxiety buster around

:namaste:
I haven’t done much in 2 years, but I still feel fit and healthy, and my BMI is good. I have been very athletic my whole life (perhaps pushing too much at times), except stopping for the last 2 years, focusing my time on family and Buddhist practise/ study.

Maybe I need to start back some light excercise, as your right about the endorphin release, but I need to make sure it is balanced and doesn’t take over my life (I have always been too competitive, to the point of hobbies taking over a large chunk of my life).

DCM
Posts: 89
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Location: Wales, UK

Re: Anxiety

Post by DCM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:33 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:09 am
aflatun wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 pm
DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:21 pm
Thanks Aflatun, that’s sound advice, I’ve tried focusing on some deep breathing at the abdominal area and it does seem to help, but my efforts had been sporadic, I’ll try a little more in line with your advice.
I'm glad you noticed it helps, its just hard to remember, particularly when the stress hits. For me its not only useful physiologically in the manner we've been discussing, but can also take you elsewhere, as the breathing body is not only "always now" and as such a great way to stay out of distraction (which can rapidly turn into anxious rumination), but it's always there determining your experience of whatever else you're engaged in ...
I've just read the whole thread, comparing the advice already given with what I might have said. Most of it is very good but to me, this is the real key point: anchoring yourself in here-and-now by staying in touch with your breath stops the "what-if" anxiety cycle very effectively, and noticing when your breathing gets tighter or faster is a good early-warning system of anxiety, too.
I have been doing yoga regularly for a few years now and it likewise emphasises awareness of the breath and the benefits of slow, smooth, relaxed abdominal breathing. It also leads (for me, at least) to a more global body awareness, so that I pick up on (e.g.) shoulder tension earlier than I would have done pre-yoga, and that's useful too. It might be something to think about when awareness of the breath is well established.

:namaste:
Kim
I don’t have much spare time to take up yoga, but I do need to be more aware of my body and any tension build up before the stress and anxiety manifest.

DCM
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 7:48 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Anxiety

Post by DCM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:35 pm

Polar Bear wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:03 am
Given what you’ve said I think it probably isn’t a spinal problem but nevertheless it could be a contributing factor. I had an acute pain in my upper rib cage that I thought was from a muscle I pulled their once but it turned to be a spinal problem and getting my back adjusted and doing a couple of other chiropractic things fixed it. In any event, unless the chiropractor is horrible, it wouldn’t hurt to see one and get adjusted twice a week for a month or more and see if that helps at all. You might consider a chiropractic consultation and see what they think. I wish you luck in finding a remedy to your ailment.

:anjali:
I did think it may have been a muscle injury from lifting heavy weights years ago, but it seems to move around the chest area too much to be a specific muscle pull.

DCM
Posts: 89
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Location: Wales, UK

Re: Anxiety

Post by DCM » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:36 pm

Pondera wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:50 am
From personal experience.

It could be supernatural. There’s no discounting the menacing nature of Mara and his horde - if you believe in that stuff. However,

Anxiety is definitely a “what if” phenomenon as Kim mentions. It’s also a “responsibility” phenomenon - a sort of “I don’t want to ...” in the face of obligations.

So, oddly enough - i’d recommend releasing any tension from the bottom of your heart and releasing tension from the ligatures in your sacroiliac area.

A word of caution. Relaxing the sacroiliac will release profuse amounts of darkness causing immense angst. However, after it is gone there will remain no more - and you can do this as often as you need to.

Sounds crazy - but like I said - this is my personal experience and victory over free floating angst in the heart (heaviness, lightness - however you try to describe it - ie. “stress”; “dukkha “).
Thankyou for the advice, but I’m not too sure what your suggesting I try, it’s not something I’ve heard about before.

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Pondera
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Re: Anxiety

Post by Pondera » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:23 am

DCM wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:36 pm
Pondera wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:50 am
From personal experience.

It could be supernatural. There’s no discounting the menacing nature of Mara and his horde - if you believe in that stuff. However,

Anxiety is definitely a “what if” phenomenon as Kim mentions. It’s also a “responsibility” phenomenon - a sort of “I don’t want to ...” in the face of obligations.

So, oddly enough - i’d recommend releasing any tension from the bottom of your heart and releasing tension from the ligatures in your sacroiliac area.

A word of caution. Relaxing the sacroiliac will release profuse amounts of darkness causing immense angst. However, after it is gone there will remain no more - and you can do this as often as you need to.

Sounds crazy - but like I said - this is my personal experience and victory over free floating angst in the heart (heaviness, lightness - however you try to describe it - ie. “stress”; “dukkha “).
Thankyou for the advice, but I’m not too sure what your suggesting I try, it’s not something I’ve heard about before.
No. It’s likely you haven’t. I discovered it my self. The crux of the advice goes like this.

As living, breathing, walking, up right mammals, we store an unusual amount of stress in the sacrum.

Sleeping is pleasant because we rest our backs. This is my conclusion after 37 years of life. Waking is horrible because responsibility beckons and we have to lurk around slaving for our daily wages. (I drive a lot in my profession also ;)).

That stress becomes anxiety. Every beat of our heart absorbs this anxiety. It comes from the sacrum. It comes from needing to do things which are a part of “this” kind of existence (not the monkish kind).

But - all of that can be availed. So, there’s a pace maker in the bottom of the heart. If you find it (mentally) and relax it (mindfully) the ligaments in the sacrum will relax also. That will release your “stress”.

That’s all I suggest. I’ve used to have major panic attacks which led to a psychotic break. Nowadays when I have one I just deal with it. But the truth is ever since I’ve been relaxing my sacrum, I’ve been overcoming my anxiety. My 2 cents worth.

Give it a try. The worst that can happen is you’ll have a crippling panic attack! ;)
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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cappuccino
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Re: Anxiety

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:44 pm

DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:17 pm
I have had other tests recently as it bugging me and they have come back all clear.
perhaps the body is dehydrated

most likely that is the anxiety

DCM
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 7:48 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Anxiety

Post by DCM » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:46 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:44 pm
DCM wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:17 pm
I have had other tests recently as it bugging me and they have come back all clear.
perhaps the body is dehydrated

most likely that is the anxiety
I have been drinking less the past month or so for no reason. I usually have a have a pint of water when I awoke and take 2 litres in work, but haven’t been for lately for no reason. I will get back into the routine.

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