Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Hello all -

I am wondering if there is a rough standard of knowledge that is required or expected before someone seeks ordination.

Is most of a monk's training in Dhamma undertaken after ordination, or does the formal/self study need to begin far before one takes the robes?

I ask this from a western perspective, and with the expectation that I may consider ordination in the next 3-4 years. I have a good grasp of the basic structure of Buddhism, but as far as terminology/Pali/Sutta knowledge goes, I am obviously far behind many of the very educated posters here.

So I ask, would that preclude me from ordaining? It seems like some of the posters here have an immense knowledge of the Dhamma, and I am wondering if that is the standard by which I should be measuring myself.

There are people who can tell you more about that topic than me.. but as far as I know you don't need to have much theoretical knowledge when you ordain..

Most important is that you are confident that you can keep to proper practise, that's for instance meditation and keeping to the precepts.
So I guess it would be very good if you knew all the monks' precepts before ordaining.

Beneath the Wheel wrote:So I ask, would that preclude me from ordaining? It seems like some of the posters here have an immense knowledge of the Dhamma, and I am wondering if that is the standard by which I should be measuring myself.

Don't confuse worldly education and ordination. I would say that a strong desire to renounce is required for ordination and any "knowledge" that fosters this desire is conducive.


Kind regards

Thanks for your input. I'm also interested if any posters here who have ordained can weigh in on how their training progressed after ordination.

Are there sutta study classes? Pali instruction? I imagined monastic life to include something akin to "formal" education in Dhamma, but I realize now that may not be the case.

Beneath the Wheel wrote:I imagined monastic life to include something akin to "formal" education in Dhamma, but I realize now that may not be the case.

The operative words here are "I imagined." There can be a lot of fantasy surrounding what it will be like and what to expect, all of which can bump up harshly against the realities of life in another culture.

tiltbillings wrote:life in another culture.

One of the better simple descriptions of monastic life.

Thank you all for your replies. I'm sure this varies greatly from one monastery to the next as well. Very interesting.

In general in Thailand no knowledge is necessary. All that is required in the memorisation of the Pali.

After ordaining there is also generally no education formally anyway. It is up to yourself to learn what you want to or need to - such as memorising certain chants. Some Wats have formal programs where you can learn Pali and/or the Thai version of Buddhism but these are optional - especially for a foreigner.

I am curious about this as well. However my query is to do with the level of meditation experience one requires in advance of ordaining.

JackV wrote:I am curious about this as well. However my query is to do with the level of meditation experience one requires in advance of ordaining.

None what so ever.

From what I've observed knowledge is not important at all. What is more important in terms of prerequisites is teachability, etiquete, deportment, adaptability, and the ability to let go and submit to the training.

Goofaholix wrote:From what I've observed knowledge is not important at all. What is more important in terms of prerequisites is teachability, etiquete, deportment, adaptability, and the ability to let go and submit to the training.

I agree, but getting along with the monks in the particular monastery would also be nice. They have to decide that they see you fit to ordain and live amongst them.

i had been thinking of ordaining for about 3 years prior to last month and visited, and lived at, quite a few monasteries around the world. my advice, if you are thinking of ordaining, would be to take a look at some more controversial aspects of Buddhism, ie. some of the suttas (check out some of the cosmological suttas in the Digha Nikaya). the suttas play an enormous role in the Orthodox Theravada Buddhism. also, check out some of the current Theravada teachers out there instead of relying solely on scripture or the teachings of the deceased. i now only respect one active teacher, after having respected many. this will help narrow down which monasteries you would pursue ordination at. this is also a very important consideration: the monastery. typically, you're going to be living at one location for up to seven years and have little to no influence on daily routine PLUS you'll be living in close contact with other monks and/or layman, and we all know how it feels to be living with people you dislike.

i am fiercely independent and very much dislike double-standards. unfortunately, you're never going to have much independence if you're ordaining in the West (although i've heard of a place in Austin, Texas with opportunity for lots of seclusion, even as a monk) and, in my experience, the Ajahn Chah lineage is rife with double-standards. people may try to convince you that "it is all a part of the training" which is utter BS - your happiness should steadily increase, people should treat you kindly and with respect no matter your monastic "rank", and your meditation should improve through the direct teachings of the abbot, not a tape recorder playing other monastic's dhamma talks, dead or alive.

lastly, consider your family's emotions, no matter how you feel about their emotions...i caused more distress for my mom with my "good intentions" of ordaining than i ever have, or quite possibly ever will...

Interesting, thanks for your response.

What is it about the "controversial" suttas you think warrants a closer look? Do you feel that a prospective monastic has to come to terms with them as literal truths in terms of cosmology? I have an idea of what suttas you may be referring to, and I'm wondering if you feel that all supernatural claims in the suttas (psychic powers,etc) need to be taken at face value before ordaining.