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Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:36 am
by pilgrim
i've just been reading Ven Nanadhaja's blogpost (http://nanadhaja.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/about-me/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) on his ordination and visa issues. I'm just wondering what are the options for western monks/nuns after their visa expires. Do they ;
1.get it renewed over and over again as long as life lasts.
2. return and live as a monk in their home country
Are these the only 2 options if one chooses to continue a monk? Is there possibility of Permanent Residency as a monk in any country?

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:05 am
by mikenz66
It's not just Western monks in Asia. It's not always easy for Theravada monks from Asia or North America to remain in Australia or New Zealand for a long time either.

A few of the Thai monks at my Wat manged to qualify for permanent residence some time ago, but I believe that Ajahn Tiradhammo, a Canadian currently residing at the Ajahn Chah monastery in Wellington, has not, despite a concerted campaign by various supporters. I attended a meeting with some members of our parliament a couple of years ago where the general issue was raised and it was clear that the concept of a monk applying for residence on the strength of having a job but no income was just too confusing for them...

:anjali:
Mike

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:57 am
by Phra Chuntawongso
My understanding of the situation in Thaland is that you can get a 1 year non immigrant R visa for 9 years.(often referred to as a monks visa)after this I believe that you would have to get a non immigrant ED(studunt)visa if you wish to remain.
I am not sure of the situation in Sri Lanka but I think Bhikku Samahita may be able to answer this.
If I need to return to NZ thats fine.I just hope there is a temple in the Bay of islands somewhere.Too windy in Wellington.
Which Wat are you at Mike.Do you have a link to them so I can see whats happening back home.I left years ago and am well and truely out of the loop.
With metta

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:00 am
by mikenz66
Hi Venerable,

Sure, as you probably know, there are various temples in the upper North Island.

I presume that if Wellington is too windy the South Island is too cold...

:anjali:
Mike

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:02 am
by Phra Chuntawongso
Oh yeah.I'm a north shore of auckland boy myself.Not the rich bit. :jumping:

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:37 am
by Hanzze
_/\_

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:41 am
by Ben
Hi Venerable,
Nanadhaja wrote:Oh yeah.I'm a north shore of auckland boy myself.Not the rich bit. :jumping:
There's also a Cambodian temple on the southern entrance to Hamilton (approx 5km out of town). I didn't go in as we were late picking up my father-in-law.
kind regards

Ben

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:42 am
by mikenz66
Nanadhaja wrote:Oh yeah.I'm a north shore of auckland boy myself.Not the rich bit. :jumping:
There's always Australia...

:anjali:
Mike

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:57 am
by Phra Chuntawongso
West Island :jumping: got too many crawly bitey things.But seriously if I headed back that way I guess I would probably head to NZ.Sometimes I think it might be good to take what I may learn from my teachers here in asia and maybe in some small way give some help in a temple to spread the dhamma amongst my own countrymen.And from a few reports I have had from visitors to NZ they need it.
Ben thankyou for the info on the Cambodian temple near Hamilton.It seems that buddhism really is getting a foothold back home.

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:10 am
by mikenz66
Nanadhaja wrote:West Island :jumping: got too many crawly bitey things.But seriously if I headed back that way I guess I would probably head to NZ.Sometimes I think it might be good to take what I may learn from my teachers here in asia and maybe in some small way give some help in a temple to spread the dhamma amongst my own countrymen.And from a few reports I have had from visitors to NZ they need it.
Ben thankyou for the info on the Cambodian temple near Hamilton.It seems that buddhism really is getting a foothold back home.
Yes. Most of the Theravada monasteries are Thai, Sri Lankan, or Cambodian (we have Thai and Sri Lankan here), which are not so easy for locals to feel comfortable in, but there are the Ajahn Chah monasteries in the North Island:
http://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vimutti.org.nz/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mike

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:11 am
by Ben
No problem, Bhante!
Yes, I did a long-course three years ago at the same meditation centre James recently spent six months at.
I would have thought SE Asia would have had more crawly bighty things than Australia!
kind regards

Ben

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:49 am
by Phra Chuntawongso
Ben wrote:No problem, Bhante!
Yes, I did a long-course three years ago at the same meditation centre James recently spent six months at.
I would have thought SE Asia would have had more crawly bighty things than Australia!
kind regards

Ben
You would think so,but to be honest I have seen less here than I did in Aussie,and I have never actually been stung or bitten by anything apart from a few mozzies.
I lived on a hippy commune outside of Cairns years ago and was stung by a scorpion.I thought I was going to die and for a while with the pain I was in I wanted to die .I suggested going to hospital might be a good plan and got told"Ah no man you don't like want a hospital man,you like huh wanna fight it man" :cookoo: I was crook for a week.No fun.

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:54 am
by pilgrim
Nanadhaja wrote:West Island :jumping: got too many crawly bitey things.But seriously if I headed back that way I guess I would probably head to NZ.Sometimes I think it might be good to take what I may learn from my teachers here in asia and maybe in some small way give some help in a temple to spread the dhamma amongst my own countrymen.And from a few reports I have had from visitors to NZ they need it.
Ben thankyou for the info on the Cambodian temple near Hamilton.It seems that buddhism really is getting a foothold back home.
I think that's a great idea. Many senior western monks settle down in Asia or otherwise disrobe and become lay-teachers in the west. But I read elsewhere in the forum that many western monasteries are filled to capacity. That doesn't seem to be the case in NZ.

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:07 am
by Phra Chuntawongso
A Tibetan nun once told me she found it difficult to get people to come to meetings in NZ.
When I asked why, she told me that they would point at the scenery around them and state they had happiness and did not need religion.Tough crowd huh.

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:16 am
by Hanzze
_/\_

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:09 am
by Ytrog
How about ordaining in the UK? Europeans wouldn't have visa issues. I hope those aren't filled to capacity :o

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:41 pm
by Phra Chuntawongso
Ytrog wrote:How about ordaining in the UK? Europeans wouldn't have visa issues. I hope those aren't filled to capacity :o
Hi Ytrog.Yeah you guys in europe are pretty lucky.There are temples all over the place.You are spoiled for choice. :clap:

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:09 pm
by Ytrog
Nanadhaja wrote:
Ytrog wrote:How about ordaining in the UK? Europeans wouldn't have visa issues. I hope those aren't filled to capacity :o
Hi Ytrog.Yeah you guys in europe are pretty lucky.There are temples all over the place.You are spoiled for choice. :clap:
Did I miss something then? :?
I know that there are a couple in the UK and one in Germany. Other than that it's all very ethnic or mahayana here.

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:16 pm
by Hanzze
_/\_

Re: Western monks after Asian visas expire

Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:05 pm
by Individual
I didn't realize it was so difficult for western people to permanently stay in foreign countries.

I thought it was only the other way around, because the "rich countries" don't want "poor foreigners."

Economically, it seems clear to me that countries always benefit from more loose immigration regulations (gradually loose -- extreme change can cause problems), but it's because of the bigotry of the people involved in government that immigration regulations exist.

Still, if you're a western monk, why stay in Asia? You might be more beneficial to people in the west.

Monks with Asian accents and bad English, while western people find them alluring, are not always as easily understood. And there are people like Gil Fronsdal, who are so brilliant, but they don't describe things with a rigorous adherence to the Pali text, or have any monastic authority, so people don't take them as seriously. Also, it seems like there are so many Buddhist temples in America that only (or mostly only) cater to Asian groups. But there is already a plethora of monastics in places like Thailand, isn't there?