Monk for a Month?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
fabianfred
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by fabianfred » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:56 pm

Thank you kindly sir... :anjali:

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salmon
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by salmon » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:00 am

Hi,

I hope this is a typo error?

Ordained stay Packages include :

Three cooked meals per day (Five Precepts),
Two cooked meals per day (Eight Precepts),

Clean accommodation, ...

:shrug:
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

fabianfred
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by fabianfred » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:21 am

If a person is doing the full 4 weeks we have them keeping the 5 precepts for the first week... eight for the second (dressed in white)...and then ordained as a novice for the final two weeks...

despite the catchy name (not my idea) monkforamonth...it is only ordination as a novice...as we know they are more careful about full monk ordination nowadays

so someone coming for only two weeks who wants to ordain will stay as five precepts for the first three days then go to the eight for a few days then ordain for a week..
obviously the three meals are only for the people keeping the five precepts.

fabianfred
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by fabianfred » Mon May 04, 2009 12:53 am

I am the one who gives the teaching of the dhamma and vipassana meditation.....
any questions please ask me

also a lively discussion here...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Monk-Mont ... 90e670c293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thecharmedbaja
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by thecharmedbaja » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:52 pm

Even though it's not free, yet there are free alternatives, that looks absolutely amazing! I'd love to go :)!
The other activities (teaching english to student monks, meditation retreats in nearby forest temples and guided day tours of the area) also sounds perfect, especially the second one! :D
What any of you ever do the extra activities?

Metta,
Jasmine

Didn't realise this post was so old... sorry! Anyway, the Monk for a Month concept looks great :D
'He is able who thinks he is able.' - The Buddha

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Cittasanto
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by Cittasanto » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:24 pm

thecharmedbaja wrote:Even though it's not free, yet there are free alternatives, that looks absolutely amazing! I'd love to go :)!
The other activities (teaching english to student monks, meditation retreats in nearby forest temples and guided day tours of the area) also sounds perfect, especially the second one! :D
What any of you ever do the extra activities?

Metta,
Jasmine
Didn't realise this post was so old... sorry! Anyway, the Monk for a Month concept looks great :D
The age of a thread is ofno real concern, unless it is something which was of its time, as an example a concert which happened 7 months ago!

I would do the retreats if I went, but it would all depend on certain circumstances if I done the tours!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Bankei
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by Bankei » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:57 am

Snowmelt wrote:I understand that monastics may not ask for food. I had understood that they also may not ask for money. Is this not the case? Or are these people not monastics?
Technically this may be the case, but in modern day Thailand ordaining as a monk generally costs a fortune. For a start, there are all the monks robes, bowls, pillow, blanket, spitoon, unbrella, etc which need to be purchased. Many people also hire photographers, maybe even a band and there is usually a huge feast put on which costs a fortune.

One of the main costs is the 'donation' to the preceptor monk and all the monks participating in the ordination ceremony. Preceptors usually get around 3,000B ($100) and the rest of the monks will get at least 500B each and there are usually 10+.

The costs may even be higher in the city temples.

Ven Pesala, does this sort of thing happen in Burma?
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appicchato
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by appicchato » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:48 pm

Not to dispute anything written here...but it's basically inaccurate...since 99.9% of males ordaining are Thai, their families cover all the expenses...'all the monks robes, bowls'...one set of robes, and one bowl...total cost about fifty bucks...a fortune?...the other stuff is already in the wat...photographer?...family with the point and shoot...band?...friends and neighbors...the meal afterward can be an outlay, although it's optional, not requisite...and while the 'donation' to the preceptor and attending monks can, in big city wats, be as much as you say, the vast majority of ordinations are nowhere near this much...half, or even less, would be closer to the mark...10+ is also a stretch...it depends on the wat...

While hi-so (high society) people will spend a lot on the fancy gear and splash for the banquet, we're talking about a very small minority...

This monk for a month is basically a business...I've known Caucasians ordaining where total (Thai) strangers, when hearing of their plans, step up and cover (part, or) everything...

Snowmelt...you understand correctly...I don't know who you're referring to when you say 'these people'...

The above is in reference to Thailand only...although considering Burma, Laos, and Cambodia are much poorer nations, one might surmise something comparable...

It's all good folks... :smile:

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Cittasanto
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by Cittasanto » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:51 pm

appicchato wrote:Not to dispute anything written here...but it's basically inaccurate...since 99.9% of males ordaining are Thai, their families cover all the expenses...'all the monks robes, bowls'...one set of robes, and one bowl...total cost about fifty bucks...a fortune?...the other stuff is already in the wat...photographer?...family with the point and shoot...band?...friends and neighbors...the meal afterward can be an outlay, although it's optional, not requisite...and while the 'donation' to the preceptor and attending monks can, in big city wats, be as much as you say, the vast majority of ordinations are nowhere near this much...half, or even less, would be closer to the mark...10+ is also a stretch...it depends on the wat...


Just as a comparison a Danish fella I met while at Amaravati, was a Bhikkhu for 18months or so at Pa Auk, and I did ask about how he got the robes etc, basically the answer was from the market, and it cost between 30-50 "bucks."
in contrast my teacher when he ordained it cost him nothing, it was completely sponsored by a lay friend (he found out after he disrobed.)

This monk for a month is basically a business...I've known Caucasians ordaining where total (Thai) strangers, when hearing of their plans, step up and cover (part, or) everything...

not sure if I understand this correctly, basically the "in contrast" of the above?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

suanck
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by suanck » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:10 am

Manapa wrote:Just went to my face book account and noticed this link on the side
so done a search and found this http://monkforamonth.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what does everyone think of this?
I think it is a bit strange although I have heard of another temple doing the same thing.
Bhante Dhammika, in his blog, had some comments on the organization behind this program:

http://sdhammika.blogspot.com/2010/02/s ... offer.html

Suanck.

Bankei
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by Bankei » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:41 am

My ordination cost around 20,000B all up. I didn't realise at the time until I added it all up.

But there is no reason to buy robes and bowls etc. Most temples have a storeroom full on them - left over from those disrobing.

I think the best cost is the donation to the upatcha and the monks - which is optional although virtually compulsory.
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Bankei

Ruwan
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by Ruwan » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:33 pm

I just thought to reply for this discussion.

Clearly monkhood can be a easy way to hell if not practiced correctly(accroding to what load buddha told to do and what not to do). Nowadays the world is full of marketing and all sort of things. Its easy for one to be misundertand and think something as correct buddhism. Even a small thing can lead to serious sin in next life as a monk. I can refer many examples from the tripitaka. Rather typing all those things in here I would like to refer you to a one sutta in tripitaka. Please refer Aggikandopama sutta. I canot easctly remember where it is but you can find your self.This is a very serious sutta for a monk .

Metta

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yuttadhammo
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by yuttadhammo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:50 pm

It might be instructive when examining this "novel" idea, to look at the effect emphasis on temporary ordination in Thai society has had on the quality of the Sangha. I don't know that any formal research has been done on the subject, but given the amount of time, energy and money involved, it doesn't seem difficult to draw an inverse correlation between emphasis on short-term ordination and overall dedication to practicing the Buddha's teaching. Short-term ordination has long been an important source of quick money, fame and respect for monasteries in Thailand, which I dare say has brought with it:

1) a misunderstanding of the role of a monk (placing as it does more importance on social work than enlightenment),

2) a diminished interest in long-term ordination (try convincing a Thai monk to give up the wife and job waiting for him to continue on after his monk "graduation" or even explaining to him that ordination is for the purpose of attaining enlightenment), and

3) an obsession among the monastic sangha with things like money, fame and respect, all of which we know are armies of mara.

Maybe I'm wrong here but if I'm right, it doesn't say much for this project or others like it. If one's intention is to ordain temporarily, wouldn't it be better to follow the orthodox paths for temporary ordination, viz. five or eight precepts? This seems like little more than using the monkhood as a gimmick to attract spiritual tourists; heck, I probably would have gone for it if it had been there when I first went to Thailand, and I guarantee that says little in support for it. We are responsible by our portrayal of Buddhism for the impression it makes on newcomers to the path - just because temporary ordination is attractive, doesn't mean it will promote a true understanding of what the Buddha taught.

I think the counterargument to all of this is that short-term ordination allows a wider audience to "experience" the teachings first-hand. There are two problems that I can see with this commonly cited virtue of short-term ordination:

1) it seems more likely to impress people as a glorified cultural ritual than true spiritual practice, especially given it is obviously men-only and therefore not intrinsic to the path anyway.
2) I guarantee that the strain put on the long-term sangha more than nullifies any benefit gleaned by the high-turnover "temps" - from simple things like spending all your time teaching noobies how to keep their skirts from falling down to more complicated problems like how to divvy up the spoils after they're gone.

</twocents>

Not sure if this is out of line, but here's a verse as food for thought, just because it mentions accepting money (not because I think so badly of monk-for-a-month):
"rāgadosaparikkiṭṭhā, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā.
avijjānivutā posā, piyarūpābhinandino.

"suraṃ pivanti merayaṃ, paṭisevanti methunaṃ.
rajataṃ jātarūpañca, sādiyanti aviddasū.
micchājīvena jīvanti, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā.

"ete upakkilesā vuttā, buddhenādiccabandhunā.
yehi upakkilesehi , eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā.
na tapanti na bhāsanti, asuddhā sarajā magā.

"andhakārena onaddhā, taṇhādāsā sanettikā.
vaḍḍhenti kaṭasiṃ ghoraṃ, ādiyanti punabbhava"nti.

-- AN 4.1.5.10 upakkilesasuttaṃ
Stained by lust and anger are certain priests and contemplatives,
men enveloped by ignorance, delighting in endearing forms.

Alcohol they drink and liquor too, partake in sexuality,
to money and precious metals do they consent - unwise ones,
by wrong livelihood live certain priests and contemplatives.

Obstructions are these called by the Awakened One, kinsman of the Sun.
Due to these obstructions certain priests and contemplatives
glow not, nor shine; impure, stained beasts.

By darkness bound, as slaves to craving led ever onward they,
expand the grotesque cemeteries and ever take up further becoming.

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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by Phra Chuntawongso » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:46 am

The month for a monk programme is now free.
Fabianfred can give more details if you ask him.
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning

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yuttadhammo
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Re: Monk for a Month?

Post by yuttadhammo » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:15 am

Nanadhaja wrote:The month for a monk programme is now free.
Does that mean the preceptor and quorum monks will stop taking money for the ordination as well? :)

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