Can monks go traveling ?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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sentinel
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Can monks go traveling ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm

Any prohibition for monks to travel and sight seeing ?
:coffee:

thepea
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by thepea » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:52 pm

sentinel wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm
Any prohibition for monks to travel and sight seeing ?
Head down observing in front of the walking feet, don’t want to carelessly step on and kill an insect.

confusedlayman
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by confusedlayman » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:12 pm

sentinel wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm
Any prohibition for monks to travel and sight seeing ?
I dont know what rules says what thing but if monk thinks going for sight seeing relax his mind which helps him focus on practise later can do it but i maybe completly wrong
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
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Alīno
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by Alīno » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:34 pm

I dont know about such prohibition, but you know... forest is a very beautifull place, with very pleasant sights, sounds, smels etc... So sometimes no need to travel to indulge in sensuality. I think for his own safety as monk, its better to guard senses, sense guarding means dont pay attention to the sights that can generate unwholesome mental states to arise. But i think it's responsability of each monk. Also we have to understand that bhikkhus are humain beings as we are, so it's ok to enjoy senses ar be attracted by pleasant things, until it's not a break of Vinaya or cause of dukkha for a bhikkhu or the community, or his supporters ...
imho
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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Dhammanando
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:12 am

sentinel wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm
Any prohibition for monks to travel and sight seeing ?
If the travelling is to inappropriate places, such as taverns, the homes of single women, etc., or if the sights the monk wants to see involve music, dancing and other such entertainments, then the Vinaya would prohibit this.

As for the kinds of sight-seeing and travelling that the Vinaya doesn't prohibit, some of them may still be inappropriate for reasons of Dhamma. If a monk were to regulate his life very strictly according to the Vanapatthasutta, then he wouldn't undertake travelling without good reason. And the Vanapatthasutta grants only one good reason for a non-arahant bhikkhu to move from one location to another, namely, his present location is one in which "unestablished mindfulness doesn't become established, an unconcentrated mind doesn't become concentrated, undestroyed āsavas don't come to destruction and he doesn't attain the unattained supreme security from bondage."

http://www.yellowrobe.com/home/120-majj ... ckets.html
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

sentinel
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by sentinel » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:33 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:12 am
sentinel wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm
Any prohibition for monks to travel and sight seeing ?
If the travelling is to inappropriate places, such as taverns, the homes of single women, etc., or if the sights the monk wants to see involve music, dancing and other such entertainments, then the Vinaya would prohibit this.

As for the kinds of sight-seeing and travelling that the Vinaya doesn't prohibit, some of them may still be inappropriate for reasons of Dhamma. If a monk were to regulate his life very strictly according to the Vanapatthasutta, then he wouldn't undertake travelling without good reason. And the Vanapatthasutta grants only one good reason for a non-arahant bhikkhu to move from one location to another, namely, his present location is one in which "unestablished mindfulness doesn't become established, an unconcentrated mind doesn't become concentrated, undestroyed āsavas don't come to destruction and he doesn't attain the unattained supreme security from bondage."

http://www.yellowrobe.com/home/120-majj ... ckets.html
Bhante , I was thinking , other than pilgrimage site like bodhagaya , kushinagar , sarnath , some buddhist temple or monastery etc , without a valid reason or proper invitation by certain people , can monks for leisure purposes visit Taj Mahal , Eiffel Tower , Great Pyramid , Kremlin , St Peter's , Notre Dame , Great Wall of China or Mount Fuji etcetera ?
:coffee:

markandeya
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by markandeya » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:05 pm

sentinel wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:54 pm
Any prohibition for monks to travel and sight seeing ?
Its very healthy for renunciates to move around, and is recommended, mostly they stay in one place for the rainy season. The first and only priority for a wandering sadhu is that his motive is for self purification and spreading the dharma. Walking has always been considered as integral part of the ancient way of dharmic life.

I have walked round most of India from South to Himalaya, nothing could ever compare to this.

I have a very good old friend who doesn't speak English and is respected for being very holy and he likes Star trek videos, he doesn't understand anything but is amazed at the technology, it takes nothing away from him being a holy man

Sight seeing on the way is not a problem, all experiences should be a practice of no attachment or aversion, lets just say a monk was passing through paris on his way to give a dhamma talk and he passes the Eiffel tower and he looks away or the ground, would look a bit odd.

I know with Monks from the East when they visit the West they want to see the parts that it is famous for, there is nothing wrong with healthy curiosity. If ever I get enlightened i would still like to visit a few places, plenty of spare time, no need to practice anymore

:woohoo:

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Dhammanando
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:37 pm

sentinel wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:33 am
can monks for leisure purposes visit Taj Mahal , Eiffel Tower , Great Pyramid , Kremlin , St Peter's , Notre Dame , Great Wall of China or Mount Fuji etcetera ?
The Vinaya wouldn't prohibit visiting any of the places you list, but I don't think it would be in line with Dhamma. One shouldn't go forth to become a tourist and bhikkhus who spend their time doing touristy things and seeking out novelties are hardly making themselves worthy of their almsfood.

Ven. Cittagutta, who's traditionally held up as the paragon of sense-restraint, wasn't even interested in looking at the mural on the wall of his cave:
Moreover, a bhikkhu who is fulfilling restraint of the faculties should be like the Elder Cittagutta resident in the Great Cave at Kuraṇḍaka, and like the Elder Mahā Mitta resident at the Great Monastery of Coraka.

In the Great Cave of Kuraṇḍaka, it seems, there was a lovely painting of the Renunciation of the Seven Buddhas. A number of bhikkhus wandering about among the dwellings saw the painting and said, “What a lovely painting, venerable sir!” The elder said: “For more than sixty years, friends, I have lived in the cave, and I did not know whether there was any painting there or not. Now, today, I know it through those who have eyes.” The elder, it seems, though he had lived there for so long, had never raised his eyes and looked up at the cave. And at the door of his cave there was a great ironwood tree. And the elder had never looked up at that either. He knew it was in flower when he saw its petals on the ground each year.

The king heard of the elder’s great virtues, and he sent for him three times, desiring to pay homage to him. When the elder did not go, he had the breasts of all the women with infants in the town bound and sealed off, [saying] “As long as the elder does not come let the children go without milk,” Out of compassion for the children the elder went to Mahāgāma. When the king heard [that he had come, he said] “Go and bring the elder in. I shall take the precepts.” Having had him brought up into the inner palace, he paid homage to him and provided him with a meal. Then, saying, “Today, venerable sir, there is no opportunity. I shall take the precepts tomorrow,” he took the elder’s bowl. After following him for a little, he paid homage with the queen and turned back. As seven days went by thus, whether it was the king who paid homage or whether it was the queen, the elder said, “May the king be happy.”

Bhikkhus asked: “Why is it, venerable sir, that whether it is the king who pays the homage or the queen you say ‘May the king be happy’?” The elder replied: “Friends, I do not notice whether it is the king or the queen.” At the end of seven days [when it was found that] the elder was not happy living there, he was dismissed by the king. He went back to the Great Cave at Kuraṇḍaka. When it was night he went out onto his walk. A deity who dwelt in the ironwood tree stood by with a torch of sticks. Then his meditation subject became quite clear and plain. The elder, [thinking] “How clear my meditation subject is today!” was glad, and immediately after the middle watch he reached Arahantship, making the whole rock resound.

So when another clansman seeks his own good:
Let him not be hungry-eyed,
Like a monkey in the groves,
Like a wild deer in the woods,
Like a nervous little child.

Let him go with eyes downcast
Seeing a plough yoke’s length before,
That he fall not in the power
Of the forest-monkey mind.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:43 pm

Monks can go anywhere they need to, as long as they follow the Noble Eightfold Path.

On Sight-seeing

“Having seen a form one loses mindfulness. Getting involved in the attraction of it, one feels the onset of desire that tries to imbibe it.”
“A multitude of passions such as covetousness and vexation, springing from form, torments one who takes a firm hold of it, with the result that his mind surely becomes impaired. Therefore, nibbāna remains remote from one who would rather carry the burden of suffering than practise meditation.”
“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the form that he has seen. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”
“Looking at a visible object, a meditator just sees it and just feels that he sees it, without conceptualising it. With this, suffering ceases. One who practises in this way is said to be near to nibbāna.”
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Bhikkhu_Jayasara
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:56 pm

I'm happy to see all the Bhantes/Ajahns posting in here :). Thank you for your wisdom.

One thing I would add is that unless you are doing a wandering, switching monasteries, etc there really is no need for you to "go" anywhere.

As a monastic I think you probably should renounce any thoughts of world traveling and sight seeing, as someone who was a bit of a world traveler and had the idea to step foot on every continent ( made it to 3 continents before renouncing and plans for the rest, even Antarctica), it was a hard thing for me to do, but I did let go, and now I travel fairly often, next year I'll be going to Australia, not for sight seeing, but to visit and spend time at various monasteries.

I've always wanted to visit the Pyramids in Egypt, which would of also counted as another continent on my list, and I have to reflect to myself the understanding that there is a good chance I will never see them in this lifetime( I can't see any reason for me to end up going to Egypt), and thats ok.

Monastics cannot or should not use money, so wherever you would go is at the behest of laity. When I leave the monastery, which I do about 10 trips a year away from it, I am going out to lead retreats and share Dhamma, all at the invitation and behest of the groups paying for me to travel and be there. Sometimes the people like to take you around and show you various sights in the various locations you visit, but that is a side note, not the reason you are there.

Even for my trip to Australia, I didn't say " hey I want to go to Australia(and I have since I was a child actually), whos gonna pay for me?!" , it was offered by a supporter visiting from Australia and I accepted. I'm sure I'll also see some of the sights down under, but my main goal is to learn from the various senior monastics I'll be able to spend time with and see how their communities are.


One thing I've noticed in this practice, is that the more you let go... the more you receive.. ;)
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Bhikkhu Jayasāra -http://www.youtube.com/studentofthepath and https://bhikkhujayasara.wordpress.com/

sentinel
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Re: Can monks go traveling ?

Post by sentinel » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:14 pm

Thanks to all the venerables . The question being asked because I did noticed many monks visiting famed places regardless of the tradition they are following .
Some monks do handle money , when they received money from devotees they should not spends it on this type of thing .

Ps . Greeting Venerable Jayasara , I visited the pyramids before , nothing much imo , stones and sands and tombs . (+Camel)
:coffee:

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