Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Buddho93
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Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Buddho93 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:29 am

https://us16.campaign-archive.com/?e=1a ... ead5761538

Definitely worth a read... my most sincere congratulations to Ajahn Amaro, Ajahn Passano, Ajahn Jayasaro and Luang Por Sumehdo for receiving new titles from the king of Thailand for their good works keeping the teachings of the Buddha alive

Sadhu sadhu sadhu!
May there be every Blessing
May all Heavenly Beings protect you
Through the power of all the
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May you be happy and well :anjali:

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:51 am

Ajahn Amaro is now Tan Chao Khun Rajbudhivorakhun.

Ajahn Sumedho is renamed Tan Chao Khun Thepñānaviteht.

Ajahn Pasanno is now Tan Chao Khun Rajbodhiviteht.

Ajahn Jayasāro is Tan Chao Khun Rajpacharamanit.

The whole thing is completely ridiculous. It's like a university giving a meaningless honorary PhD to a famous person.
Oh please take this high honor, you're so famous and awesome and here's a completely new Buddhist name you'll never use.

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Volo
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Volo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 am

Good to hear Thai support and appreciate the effort western teachers do in spreading Buddhism. Would theses titles give them some privileges? Would they be able to serve as upajjhaya so that the ordinations they perform are recognized by the Thai government? Or was it already so before?

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gavesako
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by gavesako » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:03 am

1564485359181.jpg
Ajahn Jayasaro on his new title
In this interview with Tricycle magazine Ajahn Pasanno describes the forest monks' attitude to receiving honours:

Thai King Bestows High Honor on Western Buddhists
One of the four Thai Forest monks granted a royal title explains the significance of this ceremony in Thailand and the West.


https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/ajahn-pasanno/


And here is some more historical perspective about Thai Sangha and authority:

https://www.newmandala.org/buddhism-and-authority/
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gavesako
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by gavesako » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:21 am

Volo wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 am
Good to hear Thai support and appreciate the effort western teachers do in spreading Buddhism. Would theses titles give them some privileges? Would they be able to serve as upajjhaya so that the ordinations they perform are recognized by the Thai government? Or was it already so before?
Having these titles gives the Western Ajahn Chah community a certain autonomy within the Thai Sangha and the freedom to do things in the West without being too restricted by bureaucracy. For example, getting permission for Thai monks to travel abroad and live in Western monasteries (which is not so easy). Three of the senior monks, except for Ajahn Jayasaro, were already preceptors before, so monks ordained by them would be recognized as such by the Thai Sangha and given official ID documents.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

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Volo
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Volo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:23 am

gavesako wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:21 am
Having these titles gives the Western Ajahn Chah community a certain autonomy within the Thai Sangha and the freedom to do things in the West without being too restricted by bureaucracy. For example, getting permission for Thai monks to travel abroad and live in Western monasteries (which is not so easy). Three of the senior monks, except for Ajahn Jayasaro, were already preceptors before, so monks ordained by them would be recognized as such by the Thai Sangha and given official ID documents.
:anjali:

Buddho93
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Buddho93 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:32 am

It’s a good thing I think for the western sangha, I’m sure these monks don’t take the honour personally at all but realise the good that can come of it. Also, they deserve to be recognised for all the compassion and love they have shown in following and teaching the Dhamma.
May there be every Blessing
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May you be happy and well :anjali:

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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:47 am

Buddho93 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:32 am
It’s a good thing I think for the western sangha, I’m sure these monks don’t take the honour personally at all but realise the good that can come of it. Also, they deserve to be recognised for all the compassion and love they have shown in following and teaching the Dhamma.
:goodpost:
.
I attended the celebrations for the last honorary title bestowed on Ajahn Amaro, and he said he was still struggling with the pronunciation!

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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by dharmacorps » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:29 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:51 am

The whole thing is completely ridiculous. It's like a university giving a meaningless honorary PhD to a famous person.
Oh please take this high honor, you're so famous and awesome and here's a completely new Buddhist name you'll never use.
It is. There was a celebration of Ajahn Passano's new title at Abhaygiri. He said he was given 1 day's notice that he had to be on a plane and on the way in Thailand to receive the title from the King. He said his first thought when he heard about the new title was "how do I get out of this?"!!! Finding out he couldn't, he was on a plane within a few hours. Pretty funny especially if you know Ajahn Passano's usual demeanor.

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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 pm

Firstly I want to state my respect for these Maha Theras, they, and most especially their teacher Ajahn Chah, have done wonderful things in bringing Dhamma to the west. I cannot easily calculate their worth to my own growth and practice in the past decade+ years I've been a practitioner.

I do have some questions though. Are these the literal names they will put down if they write articles, or that other people will start calling them by? or are they just honorary titles(like James says with the PHD) for use in Thailand? IE, do I need to care about this? or will it not be another name people have to remember?

I had no idea that even though they were Maha Theras they had certain restrictions based on the Thai government/monastics, THAT is absurd and one of the many reasons religion and government should be separate. This makes it even more obvious to me now that westerners were always a sort of second class citizen, especially given that all the western monks have to have their name in the vocative ( Ajahn Jayasaro and I have the same name, the 0 is just vocative required in Thailand to designate him as a foreign monk). When Bhante G first told me this I almost couldn't believe it, until I counted off all the Ajahn's I knew and I realized its truth.
It’s a good thing I think for the western sangha,
Which one?

Personally I think it will be a good thing when there really IS a "western sangha", unattached to the government and culture of the "home countries". There are many things from the various Buddhist countries that are good to carry over into a "western sangha", but there are many many things that are not. What I see mostly, in America, anyways, is not a "western sangha"(just a thai one, or sri lankan, or burmese etc), I see the roots of one here and there, but it's very early days yet.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:07 pm

Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 pm

I do have some questions though. Are these the literal names they will put down if they write articles, or that other people will start calling them by? or are they just honorary titles(like James says with the PHD) for use in Thailand?
The former, it appears. Ajahn Amaro has had the formal title Chao Khun Phra Videsabuddhiguṇa for nearly five years now, but I have never heard it used or seen it under one of his Dhamma talks. The Amaravati website still lists him as plain old Amaro.

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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:16 pm

thank you for that, good to know.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:17 pm

Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 pm
I do have some questions though. Are these the literal names they will put down if they write articles, or that other people will start calling them by?
In saṅghakamma contexts (e.g., when acting as upajjhayas) they'll continue to use the Pali names they were given at their ordinations. In other contexts it's up to them what use (if any) they make of their new names.
Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 pm
This makes it even more obvious to me now that westerners were always a sort of second class citizen, especially given that all the western monks have to have their name in the vocative ( Ajahn Jayasaro and I have the same name, the 0 is just vocative required in Thailand to designate him as a foreign monk). When Bhante G first told me this I almost couldn't believe it, until I counted off all the Ajahn's I knew and I realized its truth.
That's not correct. The -o ending in Jayasāro is nominative, not vocative. The -a in Jayasāra happens to be morphologically vocative, though when used as a monk's name it's usually regarded as being pre-inflected, i.e., as being in the form one would meet with in a Pali dictionary.

In any case the practice in Thailand is that the name a monk is given at his ordination is always in the nominative case. This is true of all monks and doesn't indicate anything at all about a monk's status. The only thing different about Ven. Jayasāro, Amaro, etc. is that they use their Pali names all the time, which is a peculiarity of the Ajahn Chah tradition. The general practice in Thailand is that monks use their lay name prefixed by Phra or Tan.
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by DooDoot » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:36 pm

Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 pm
I had no idea that even though they were Maha Theras they had certain restrictions based on the Thai government/monastics... that westerners were always a sort of second class citizen...
Please explain more. What exactly were/are the "restrictions"? Thank you.
Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:47 pm
a "western sangha", unattached to the government and culture of the "home countries".
My impression is the bulk of the donations required to build & operate the Ajahn Chah Western monasteries came/comes from the culture of the "home countries".
Beautiful inspiring photographs. Thank you for posting this. Nice looking robes.
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Re: Latest announcement from Amaravati monastery. (Good dhamma inc)

Post by Buddho93 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:43 am

I would just like to say, it is great to hear from you Bikkhu Jayasara, I am new to dhamma wheel but have been following you on YouTube and Facebook and always enjoy your posts.

I’m sure the monasteries have to pay a certain lip service to the ‘home country’ but there must be some autonomy there(?)

What you were saying reminded me of Ajahn Brahm in Perth and his monastery which got ‘ex communicated’ from the Ajahn Chah tradition.
Could this, with the re establishment of the Bikkhuni order, be the start of a truly autonomous western sangha?

Please forgive me for anything I have misunderstood, I do realise my insight into these matters is very limited. Hope you are well bhante :heart:
May there be every Blessing
May all Heavenly Beings protect you
Through the power of all the
Buddhas,
Dhammas
and Sanghas
May you be happy and well :anjali:

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