Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Meezer77
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Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:53 pm

Curious, is this an ego thing to prove to others that they’re normal? Thoughts?

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SDC
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by SDC » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:35 pm

If it is relative to to the instruction being given, perhaps it can be helpful.

I've never heard a monk or nun be very explicit in that regard and can't imagine the details being very relevant.

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Polar Bear
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Polar Bear » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:00 pm

Trying to show that one was normal could be due to ego or it could be done to assure those listening that their advice and lifestyle is relevant to them. If people think that all monks are asexual or never had much of a sex life then they may think the ideal of celibacy in Buddhism is just a fringe practice for weirdos.

Although from the sutta perspective it is considered virtuous to go forth at such an age that one hadn’t had sex yet. Of course, in the west the average person has sex as a teenager before they’d be eligible for full ordination so most western monastics, monks or nuns, will have had some amount of sexual experience before ordaining. But there’s nothing wrong with ordaining even if one has had a below average amount of sexual activity, or none. There’s no need to go get married and then divorced, have a string of girlfriends or boyfriends as a serial monogamist, become a pick-up artist, or consort with prostitutes, etc, just so that you can comfortably become a life long celibate meditator. The main problem with not having had a semi-satisfactory exploration of one’s sexuality before ordaining is that one could be haunted by sexual regrets or what-if scenarios in their head. Jack Kornfield and Santikaro both disrobed to explore intimacy and many who disrobe, perhaps most, do so because they still have sexual desires, and perhaps sexual insecurities. It takes a lot of faith to battle a billion years of evolution hardwired into the brain, the pull of social pressure and expectation, and theoretically an unknown number of past lives filled with sensual desire.

I think that a monastic discussing their sex lives from when they weren’t ordained could be a problem in that it’s trudging up ‘memories and resolves related to the household life’, which is a defilement, but I can understand that there are various reasons for doing so. The Buddha in some suttas mentioned how he was rich and lived luxuriously and then used that as a foil to talk about how the simple life of renunciation is superior to riches and luxuries. Using a past life of sensual indulgence and decadence that was ultimately unfulfilling as a foil to a current life of renunciation and true peace and bliss is a recurring theme in the suttas actually.


:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

Meezer77
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:49 am

Yeah, I get your point. The monk in the Dhamma talk I was listening to, I think he was referring to his hippy days when there was all that free love and stuff. He said that he had no children that he knew of. I couldn’t help wondering how he would react if some random 40 year old walked into the monestery. “Dad?”

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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:17 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:53 pm
Curious, is this an ego thing to prove to others that they’re normal? Thoughts?
For example, where? Thanks. Can you provide an example? Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Meezer77
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:15 am

I don’t want to mention names

sunnat
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by sunnat » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:27 am

: “Ānanda, let us go to the Eastern Bathing Place to bathe.”—“Yes, venerable sir,” the venerable Ānanda replied. Then the Blessed One went with the venerable Ānanda to the Eastern Bathing Place to bathe. When he was finished, he came up out of the water and stood in one robe drying his limbs. Then the venerable Ānanda said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, the brahmin Rammaka’s hermitage is nearby. That hermitage is agreeable and delightful. Venerable sir, it would be good if the Blessed One went there out of compassion.” The Blessed One consented in silence.

Then the Blessed One went to the brahmin Rammaka’s hermitage. Now on that occasion a number of bhikkhus were sitting together in the hermitage discussing the Dhamma. The Blessed One stood outside the door waiting for their discussion to end. When he knew that it was over, he coughed and knocked, and the bhikkhus opened the door for him. The Blessed One entered, sat down on a seat made ready, and addressed the bhikkhus thus: “Bhikkhus, for what discussion are you sitting together here now? And what was your discussion that was interrupted?”

“Venerable sir, our discussion on the Dhamma that was interrupted was about the Blessed One himself. Then the Blessed One arrived.”

“Good, bhikkhus. It is fitting for you clansmen who have gone forth out of faith from the home life into homelessness to sit together to discuss the Dhamma. When you gather together, bhikkhus, you should do either of two things: hold discussion on the Dhamma or maintain noble silence.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/mn26 - The Noble Search

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Aloka
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Aloka » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:33 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:15 am
I don’t want to mention names

If it was a recording of a talk that you were listening to, then I can't see any problem with giving a link to it, if its out there already.

Otherwise if you can''t be more specific it just seems like unsubstantiated gossip.

.

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mikenz66
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:09 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:53 pm
Curious, is this an ego thing to prove to others that they’re normal? Thoughts?
Hi Meezer,

It's hard to answer this with the amount of detail you've given. In my experience it's quite common for western monks to mention their life before ordaining, sometimes as a reflection about what they have given up. I've not heard any being explicit about it, more along the lines of: "I gave up sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and I'm much happier now".

Ajahn Brahm frequently says that jhana is better than sex. However, he doesn't go into details (about sex)... :thinking:

:heart:
Mike

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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by SarathW » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:12 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:49 am
Yeah, I get your point. The monk in the Dhamma talk I was listening to, I think he was referring to his hippy days when there was all that free love and stuff. He said that he had no children that he knew of. I couldn’t help wondering how he would react if some random 40 year old walked into the monestery. “Dad?”
Well. It happened to Buddha.
Rahula when he was about twelve years only he knew about his father.
So he went to Buddha and asked "Dad where is my inheritance"
Buddha took him to the temple and ordained him as well!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Meezer77
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:09 am

It’s true when they say the devil’s in the detail 😈😈😈

sunnat
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by sunnat » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:45 pm

3:8 Alms (Pi˚˜a Sutta).
.... the Blessed One, emerging from his seclusion in the late afternoon, went to the kareri-tree pavilion and, on arrival, sat down on a seat laid out. Seated, he addressed the monks: “For what topic are you sitting together here? And what was the discussion that came to no conclusion?”

“Just now, lord, after the meal, on returning from our alms round, we were sitting gathered together here at the kareri-tree pavilion when this discussion arose : ... friends, let’s become alms-collecting monks. Then we, too, while going for alms, will periodically get to see agreeable sights via the eye… to hear agreeable sounds via the ear… to smell agreeable aromas via the nose… to taste agreeable flavors via the tongue… to touch agreeable tactile sensations via the body. We, too, while going for alms, will be honored, respected, revered, venerated, and given homage.

“It isn’t proper, monks, that sons of good families, on having gone forth out of faith from home to the homeless life, should talk on such a topic. When you have gathered you have two duties: either Dhamma-talk or noble silence.”

Meezer77
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:23 pm

Liam 😥

Meezer77
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:26 pm

Sorry folks he’s an extremely shallow person and has a criminally low boredom threshold. Anyone help me find some good antivirus for my phone? Reaches for vodka , off to quacks for Valium

Meezer77
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Re: Monks talking about their sex lives before they ordained

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:27 pm

:guns: :rofl:

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