I'm a young monk in Thailand doing tudong practice :)

[Noahs ark]

Oh I've never heard that word before!

Travelling, living on the edge, different temple every night. Soon will go into the forests and mountains. Very exciting.
:thumbsup:

Greetings venerable,
How would you say that this travelling/tudong is different from a lay person backpacking?
Most backpackers do this kind of thing, eating simply, camping in random places, going into forests and mountains, and being excited by it also. They also have smartphones and usually travel not-alone.
Not all backpacking wanderers are unrestrained either, some practice virtue.
Why is backpacking for you an ascetic practice?

[Chanh Dao]

Most backpackers follow zero precepts. Monks follow 227.

[Noahs ark]

Most backpackers follow zero precepts. Monks follow 227.

Sure the number 227 is impressive, but a person, lay or ordained can keep 2 percepts i.e do what is wholesome and not do what is unwholesome, which covers it all.

There are many rules a part of the 227 that are irrelevant, not the spirit of the rule but the content, for example the rules on having felt rugs etc

A monastic sitting in an empty dwelling can keep all the rules, and a lay person can also just sit in an empty dwelling, simply not doing anything unwholesome. A backpacker can also just wander wholesomely, for not all who wander are lost.

I can understand keeping restraint is an ascetic practice but I just don't see why wandering around is 'ascetic'?

Surely, even wandering around could be done within the bounds of percepts, but still it could be an unwholesome act i.e a form of distraction, a restless mind, not wanting to be with others, or wanting to be with others, trying to prove something etc

Do you think wandering practice is inherently wholesome? Can it do the work of 'freedom from dukkha' for you?

[Chanh Dao]

Nothing is inherently wholesome.

I don't know.

[Noahs ark]

Nothing is inherently wholesome.

I don't know.

Abandoning the unwholesome is inherently wholesome.

Are you travelling with a tent or relying solely on temple accomodation?
Hope you got sunscreen , it must be pretty hot out there?

[Chanh Dao]

It is not so simple.

No need for sunscreen. I am protected by the robes.

[Sam Vara]

I can understand keeping restraint is an ascetic practice but I just don't see why wandering around is 'ascetic'?

Surely, even wandering around could be done within the bounds of percepts, but still it could be an unwholesome act i.e a form of distraction, a restless mind, not wanting to be with others, or wanting to be with others, trying to prove something etc

Do you think wandering practice is inherently wholesome? Can it do the work of 'freedom from dukkha' for you?

Here's a nice little quote by Ajahn Sucitto, a Westerner, on the practice:

‘Tudong’ is the Thai form of dhutanga, meaning literally ‘means of shaking off’, i.e. the practices that emphasise renunciation, and it can refer to the thirteen dhutanga austerities, or to the forest bhikkhus who live observing all or some of these and other renunciate practices, or more narrowly, to the custom of walking for weeks, months, or even years on end with just a bowl containing spare robes and essentials such as a razor, sewing equipment and matches; a water kettle; and a ‘glot’ – a large umbrella with mosquito-net which acts as a tent. Mostly dhutanga walks are undertaken by bhikkhus of the forest monasteries when they are considered stable enough and well grounded in the Vinaya-discipline. You have to learn to live simply to go tudong, and to handle yourself with skill in the face of such difficulties as not finding alms food, disease, and bad weather. Moreover, for a foreigner there are the problems of language and custom, and as a meditator outside the shelter of the teacher, doubts about one’s practice and one’s purity, I could see quite clearly that it would be enormously strengthening to walk through that lot and keep on going, and its flavour and appearance very much fitted those ideals of homelessness and simplicity that had led me to take ordination.

The whole article is worth reading:
https://ajahnsucitto.org/articles/a-fir ... n-britain/

Many of the local monks do it in the UK, and find it very beneficial.

[Chanh Dao]

I can understand keeping restraint is an ascetic practice but I just don't see why wandering around is 'ascetic'?

Surely, even wandering around could be done within the bounds of percepts, but still it could be an unwholesome act i.e a form of distraction, a restless mind, not wanting to be with others, or wanting to be with others, trying to prove something etc

Do you think wandering practice is inherently wholesome? Can it do the work of 'freedom from dukkha' for you?

Here's a nice little quote by Ajahn Sucitto, a Westerner, on the practice:

‘Tudong’ is the Thai form of dhutanga, meaning literally ‘means of shaking off’, i.e. the practices that emphasise renunciation, and it can refer to the thirteen dhutanga austerities, or to the forest bhikkhus who live observing all or some of these and other renunciate practices, or more narrowly, to the custom of walking for weeks, months, or even years on end with just a bowl containing spare robes and essentials such as a razor, sewing equipment and matches; a water kettle; and a ‘glot’ – a large umbrella with mosquito-net which acts as a tent. Mostly dhutanga walks are undertaken by bhikkhus of the forest monasteries when they are considered stable enough and well grounded in the Vinaya-discipline. You have to learn to live simply to go tudong, and to handle yourself with skill in the face of such difficulties as not finding alms food, disease, and bad weather. Moreover, for a foreigner there are the problems of language and custom, and as a meditator outside the shelter of the teacher, doubts about one’s practice and one’s purity, I could see quite clearly that it would be enormously strengthening to walk through that lot and keep on going, and its flavour and appearance very much fitted those ideals of homelessness and simplicity that had led me to take ordination.

The whole article is worth reading:
https://ajahnsucitto.org/articles/a-fir ... n-britain/

Many of the local monks do it in the UK, and find it very beneficial.

Awesome thank you

[Ivy Piyen]

Good luck in your practice

[JamesTheGiant]

I don't know.

That is a very good answer! So many people try to defend a view, instead of being genuinely uncertain. Plus an answer like that often stops an argument cold.

[Dhammabodhi]

Right after I read this, purely coincidentally, found this gem:

Pancho and Lefty. Heartworn Highways- Townes van Zandt

I guess one can see what the difference between a putthujjana wanderer and a Samana wanderer is quite clearly from this?

Living on the road my friend
Was gonna keep you free and clean
Now you wear your skin like iron
Your breath's as hard as kerosene
You weren't your mama's only boy
But her favorite one it seems
She began to cry when you said goodbye
And sank into your dreams

[Angulimala]

i'm very interested about your story. I usually listen the Dhamma talk of Ajahn Chah (on youtube) and very excited about Dhutanga. Can you tell me how to exprerience and reach to the dhutanga (tudong monk) in Thailand? Can you suggest some idea and places/ monastery that i can go to join and get more information. Hope to recieve your reply. Thank's a lot!

[erasemyself]

Hello Venerable

It’s interesting that you are a newly ordained monk, I thought monks were encouraged to have at least five rains retreats experience before going on Thudong. Did you set off on Thudong as soon as you ordained? If so that would be most unusual as I understand. Did your teacher encourage you to do so?

I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be interested to know who your preceptor was, where you came from and any other biographical details you could share with us. Had you been formally practicing long before embarking on your travels?

Living in Thailand I occasionally see a Thudong monk, though not often. When I do I feel it’s a most auspicious sight that uplifts my day. I wish you all the best on your travels.

EM