Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
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Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?
I respected Ven. Sudassana in high regard for his knowledge of Tipitaka but he always said that he was not a Sotapanna.
Now to my disappointment, he says that monks should sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism.
(This is in regard to the different interpretation of Sutta by Ven. Abhaya and the rest) He was very emotional in his speech.
The video in the Sinhalese language.
Has Buddha given any instructions on how to safeguard the teaching by lay people and monks?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
binocular
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by binocular »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pmShould monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?
Do you mean such as by killing themselves or by putting themselves into situations where they are likely going to be killed?

How would they protect Buddhism that way??
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Faelig
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by Faelig »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pm [...] I respected Ven. Sudassana in high regard for his knowledge of Tipitaka but he always said that he was not a Sotapanna.
Now to my disappointment, he says that monks should sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism.
(This is in regard to the different interpretation of Sutta by Ven. Abhaya and the rest) [...]
HI SarathW,
Could you provide some information about who is Ven. Sudassana, who is Ven. Abhaya and what is the context of the debate between the two of them? Are they proeminent monks in Sri Lanka right now? Are there information about them in English somewhere?
Many thanks
fornoxe
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by fornoxe »

+1

I dont know what I should think about that. First I would like to say bullshit. Because, this monk build his identity on be a buddhist. And if they attack buddhism, they attack himself. That why he say he want to sacrifice to protect buddhism.

Its not buddhism, its him ego.

My point of view.
SarathW
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

what is the context of the debate
Please read the following link. Ven Abhaya is a student of Ven. Abhyaratnalankara.
It appears they have incorrectly interpreted the key Pali terms.
Then a new movement emerged name as Vibajjavada to counteract the wrong teaching of Buddha.
It appears Ven. Suddasana is a leading monk of the Vibajjavada movement.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=26749
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Faelig
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by Faelig »

Thanks for the information!
You mention a link but I can't see one in your post?
SarathW
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

Faelig wrote: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:56 am Thanks for the information!
You mention a link but I can't see one in your post?
Fixed the link
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
fornoxe
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by fornoxe »

I read a bit the topic with my poor english.

Freaking.
santa100
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by santa100 »

SarathW wrote:Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?
Depends on how "sacrifice" is defined. There're plenty of good examples about true sacrifice in the suttas, like Ven. Punna in MN 145, or Ven. Angulimala in MN 86
binocular
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by binocular »

santa100 wrote: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pmDepends on how "sacrifice" is defined.
To be distinguished from martyrdom.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
santa100
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by santa100 »

binocular wrote: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:28 pm
santa100 wrote: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pmDepends on how "sacrifice" is defined.
To be distinguished from martyrdom.
Yep, another important distinction.
SarathW
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

His argument was that King Ajasattu did not go to hell even if he had done a heinous karma because he helped to establish the Sasana.
There are many people commit suicide for sensual gratification and why monks can't do a little sacrifice to protect Pariyatti.
His line of Argument was not very clear but he is asking monks to put forward their life to protect the Buddhism. It appears Ven Sudassan was an army officer before he became a monk. Perhaps he is using some forceful activity.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
santa100
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by santa100 »

SarathW wrote:His argument was that King Ajasattu did not go to hell even if he had done a heinous karma because he helped to establish the Sasana.
He obviously needs to study more suttas, especially DN 2:
DN 2 wrote:Then King Ajātasattu rejoiced in the word of the Exalted One and thanked him for it. Rising from his seat, he paid homage to the Exalted One, circumambulated him, and departed.

Soon after King Ajātasattu had left, the Exalted One addressed the bhikkhus: “This king, bhikkhus, has ruined himself; he has injured himself. Bhikkhus, if this king had not taken the life of his father, a righteous man and a righteous king, then in this very seat there would have arisen in him the dust-free, stainless eye of Dhamma.”
And note from Maurice Walshe from "Long Discourses":
the expression indicates that Ajātasattu was inhibited by his kamma from obtaining the results that would otherwise have accrued, since parricide is one of the evil acts ‘with immediate result’ (in the next world) that cannot be avoided.
And similar comment from Ven. Thanissaro:
DN 2 wrote:At the end of the talk, Ajatasattu takes refuge in the Triple Gem. Although his earlier deeds were so heavy that this expression of faith could have only limited consequences in the immediate present, the Commentary assures us that the king's story would ultimately have a happy ending. After the Buddha's death, he sponsored the First Council, at which a congress of arahant disciples produced the first standardized account of the Buddha's teachings. As a result of the merit coming from this deed, Ajatasattu is destined — after his release from hell — to attain Awakening as a Private Buddha.
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mikenz66
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Sarath,
SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:39 pm His argument was that King Ajasattu did not go to hell even if he had done a heinous karma because he helped to establish the Sasana.
There are many people commit suicide for sensual gratification and why monks can't do a little sacrifice to protect Pariyatti.
His line of Argument was not very clear but he is asking monks to put forward their life to protect the Buddhism. It appears Ven Sudassan was an army officer before he became a monk. Perhaps he is using some forceful activity.
To me it seems rather pointless to try to discuss what someone might have said based on such limited explanation. I suggest that if you want to have a useful discussion you spend some time writing the statement in clear English. I have no idea what you mean by: "He is asking monks to put forward their life to protect the Buddhism."

This could be as innocuous as this part of the evening chant:
Dhammassāhaṁ niyyādemi sarīrañjīvitañ-c’idaṁ.
To the Dhamma I dedicate this body & this life of mine.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... _toc_id_15
Or it could be completely different. Without the context, it is impossible to comment.

:heart:
Mike
SarathW
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Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW »

I have no idea what you mean by
I have no idea either. The reading the comments from the listeners of that video and the tone of his voice he was angry.
However, end of the talk he apologise for any one who offended by his talk.
By the way what I really like to know is the extent to which a monk should take action to protect Buddhism.
It is important us to discuss this because the problems happening in Myanmar and even in Sri Lanka relating to Muslims.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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