Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pm

Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?
I respected Ven. Sudassana in high regard for his knowledge of Tipitaka but he always said that he was not a Sotapanna.
Now to my disappointment, he says that monks should sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism.
(This is in regard to the different interpretation of Sutta by Ven. Abhaya and the rest) He was very emotional in his speech.
The video in the Sinhalese language.
Has Buddha given any instructions on how to safeguard the teaching by lay people and monks?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by binocular » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:09 am

SarathW wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pm
Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?
Do you mean such as by killing themselves or by putting themselves into situations where they are likely going to be killed?

How would they protect Buddhism that way??
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Faelig
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:41 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by Faelig » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:59 am

SarathW wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 pm
[...] I respected Ven. Sudassana in high regard for his knowledge of Tipitaka but he always said that he was not a Sotapanna.
Now to my disappointment, he says that monks should sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism.
(This is in regard to the different interpretation of Sutta by Ven. Abhaya and the rest) [...]
HI SarathW,
Could you provide some information about who is Ven. Sudassana, who is Ven. Abhaya and what is the context of the debate between the two of them? Are they proeminent monks in Sri Lanka right now? Are there information about them in English somewhere?
Many thanks

fornoxe
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by fornoxe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:28 am

+1

I dont know what I should think about that. First I would like to say bullshit. Because, this monk build his identity on be a buddhist. And if they attack buddhism, they attack himself. That why he say he want to sacrifice to protect buddhism.

Its not buddhism, its him ego.

My point of view.

SarathW
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:48 am

what is the context of the debate
Please read the following link. Ven Abhaya is a student of Ven. Abhyaratnalankara.
It appears they have incorrectly interpreted the key Pali terms.
Then a new movement emerged name as Vibajjavada to counteract the wrong teaching of Buddha.
It appears Ven. Suddasana is a leading monk of the Vibajjavada movement.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=26749
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Faelig
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:41 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by Faelig » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:56 am

Thanks for the information!
You mention a link but I can't see one in your post?

SarathW
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:04 am

Faelig wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:56 am
Thanks for the information!
You mention a link but I can't see one in your post?
Fixed the link
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

fornoxe
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by fornoxe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:12 pm

I read a bit the topic with my poor english.

Freaking.

santa100
Posts: 3189
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by santa100 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm

SarathW wrote:Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?
Depends on how "sacrifice" is defined. There're plenty of good examples about true sacrifice in the suttas, like Ven. Punna in MN 145, or Ven. Angulimala in MN 86

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by binocular » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:28 pm

santa100 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm
Depends on how "sacrifice" is defined.
To be distinguished from martyrdom.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

santa100
Posts: 3189
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by santa100 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:42 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:28 pm
santa100 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm
Depends on how "sacrifice" is defined.
To be distinguished from martyrdom.
Yep, another important distinction.

SarathW
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:39 pm

His argument was that King Ajasattu did not go to hell even if he had done a heinous karma because he helped to establish the Sasana.
There are many people commit suicide for sensual gratification and why monks can't do a little sacrifice to protect Pariyatti.
His line of Argument was not very clear but he is asking monks to put forward their life to protect the Buddhism. It appears Ven Sudassan was an army officer before he became a monk. Perhaps he is using some forceful activity.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
Posts: 3189
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by santa100 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:53 pm

SarathW wrote:His argument was that King Ajasattu did not go to hell even if he had done a heinous karma because he helped to establish the Sasana.
He obviously needs to study more suttas, especially DN 2:
DN 2 wrote:Then King Ajātasattu rejoiced in the word of the Exalted One and thanked him for it. Rising from his seat, he paid homage to the Exalted One, circumambulated him, and departed.

Soon after King Ajātasattu had left, the Exalted One addressed the bhikkhus: “This king, bhikkhus, has ruined himself; he has injured himself. Bhikkhus, if this king had not taken the life of his father, a righteous man and a righteous king, then in this very seat there would have arisen in him the dust-free, stainless eye of Dhamma.”
And note from Maurice Walshe from "Long Discourses":
the expression indicates that Ajātasattu was inhibited by his kamma from obtaining the results that would otherwise have accrued, since parricide is one of the evil acts ‘with immediate result’ (in the next world) that cannot be avoided.
And similar comment from Ven. Thanissaro:
DN 2 wrote:At the end of the talk, Ajatasattu takes refuge in the Triple Gem. Although his earlier deeds were so heavy that this expression of faith could have only limited consequences in the immediate present, the Commentary assures us that the king's story would ultimately have a happy ending. After the Buddha's death, he sponsored the First Council, at which a congress of arahant disciples produced the first standardized account of the Buddha's teachings. As a result of the merit coming from this deed, Ajatasattu is destined — after his release from hell — to attain Awakening as a Private Buddha.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16498
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:23 pm

Hi Sarath,
SarathW wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:39 pm
His argument was that King Ajasattu did not go to hell even if he had done a heinous karma because he helped to establish the Sasana.
There are many people commit suicide for sensual gratification and why monks can't do a little sacrifice to protect Pariyatti.
His line of Argument was not very clear but he is asking monks to put forward their life to protect the Buddhism. It appears Ven Sudassan was an army officer before he became a monk. Perhaps he is using some forceful activity.
To me it seems rather pointless to try to discuss what someone might have said based on such limited explanation. I suggest that if you want to have a useful discussion you spend some time writing the statement in clear English. I have no idea what you mean by: "He is asking monks to put forward their life to protect the Buddhism."

This could be as innocuous as this part of the evening chant:
Dhammassāhaṁ niyyādemi sarīrañjīvitañ-c’idaṁ.
To the Dhamma I dedicate this body & this life of mine.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... _toc_id_15
Or it could be completely different. Without the context, it is impossible to comment.

:heart:
Mike

SarathW
Posts: 10508
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Should monks sacrifice their life to protect Buddhism?

Post by SarathW » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:35 am

I have no idea what you mean by
I have no idea either. The reading the comments from the listeners of that video and the tone of his voice he was angry.
However, end of the talk he apologise for any one who offended by his talk.
By the way what I really like to know is the extent to which a monk should take action to protect Buddhism.
It is important us to discuss this because the problems happening in Myanmar and even in Sri Lanka relating to Muslims.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mikenz66 and 20 guests