Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
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Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by SarathW » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:11 am

Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?
When I think about becoming a monk I have the following fear.
- Who will provide me the food?
- Who will provide me the shelter
- Who will provide the medicine
- Who will look after me when I am sick

I wonder whether many monks have this anxiety too.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

fornoxe
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by fornoxe » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:09 am

I am already homeless/hobo so for me I will not have this question until my death when I will be monk.

All my time to find peace and hapiness :)

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:19 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:11 am
Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?
When I think about becoming a monk I have the following fear.
- Who will provide me the food?
- Who will provide me the shelter
- Who will provide the medicine
- Who will look after me when I am sick

I wonder whether many monks have this anxiety too.
Monks don't have to have a death wish, but they do have to trust. Trust the laypeople for shelter, food, medicine, trust in their kamma.

binocular
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by binocular » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:29 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:19 am
Monks don't have to have a death wish, but they do have to trust. Trust the laypeople for shelter, food, medicine, trust in their kamma.
Interesting. I would have thought that deciding to ordain entails being ready to die from starvation, (easily curable) disease, exposure to the natural elements, assault.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

fornoxe
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by fornoxe » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:30 am

We will die in anycase. We must dont be afraid by death when we go on the path because we have to die (personality/ego) to become enlightment.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by Crazy cloud » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:40 am

"no wish" is the only wish

Maybe something like: endless possibility is not using it - when a fragment bursts into a small big bang, the end is near, and endless possibilities with it activity.

stillness in a state of awe
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by DNS » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:03 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:40 am
"no wish" is the only wish
:thumbsup: Yes, it's not that monks have a death wish, it's just that the ideal state is to have no wishes; then you just take (with equanimity) whatever life throws at you.

dharmacorps
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 pm

Come now friend Sarath, you've been on here long enough to understand this! :tongue:

Silly questions!

fornoxe
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by fornoxe » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:14 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:40 am
"no wish" is the only wish

Maybe something like: endless possibility is not using it - when a fragment bursts into a small big bang, the end is near, and endless possibilities with it activity.

stillness in a state of awe
No wish is not enough.

Who's wish? Even it is "I dont any wish", that a wish and thats not enough. At all.

Work until we will not understand the concept of wish.

santa100
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by santa100 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:36 pm

SarathW wrote:Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?
In some respects, you do. One'd need to have a death wish to the old self full of defilements, full of worries and fears (about lack of food, shelter, sickness, etc.) and to be reborn with a new identity and join the rank of the brave and fearless noble disciples.
MN 86 wrote:But would not this be deliberate lying on my part, revered sir? For, revered sir, many living things have been intentionally deprived of life by me.” “Well then, do you, Aṅgulimāla, approach Sāvatthī; having approached, speak thus to that woman: ‘I, sister, am not aware of having intentionally deprived any living thing of life since I was born of the ariyan birth. By this truth may there be well-being for you, well-being for the unborn child.’” “Yes, revered sir,” and the venerable Aṅgulimāla, having answered the Lord in assent, approached Sāvatthī; having approached, he spoke thus to that woman: “I, sister, am not aware of having intentionally deprived any living thing of life since I was born of the ariyan birth. By this truth may there be well-being for you, well-being for the unborn child.’”

pegembara
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by pegembara » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:54 am

GOING, GOING, GONE
So today I am going to be talking about one of the main meditation techniques, but in a different way. I’m going to talk about it from the perspective of dying. I always remember one of the common phrases of Ajahn Chah, when I was in his monastery in Thailand. He’d come up to you and ask, “Have you come here to die?”, and of course, it’s very strange that someone would ask that because you’d be thinking “I haven’t come here to die, I’ve come here to get Enlightened, and to get nice meditations”, but he’d ask, “Have you come here to die?” And because Ajahn Chah was always repeating that phrase, it became very clear that this idea of dying is a very profound and useful one.

When a person dies they have to let go, they have to renounce. “Everything which is ‘mine’, beloved and pleasing”, gets taken away from you when you die. So here we are, practising dying. We are imagining dying by willingly giving up all of those things, which in this context we clearly realise do not belong to us. They are not ‘mine’, They are not a ‘self’(attà) – as we have just been chanting in the Anattàlakkhana Sutta (SN 22.59).

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books7/Ajah ... to_die.htm
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

SarathW
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by SarathW » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:30 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 pm
Come now friend Sarath, you've been on here long enough to understand this! :tongue:

Silly questions!
Yes I thought the same when I posted it until I read the post from Pegembara.
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

binocular
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by binocular » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:20 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:11 am
Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?
Not a death wish, but a readiness to die (and the readiness expressed in tangible terms).


On a linguistic note:
death wish
: the conscious or unconscious desire for the death of oneself or of another
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death%20wish

---

death wish
Term commonly applied to those who engage in activities that significantly raise their risk of severe bodily injury or death.
/.../
A deathwish is a complete disregard of one's own personal safety well-being, or best interests. For example:
1. Naivety or ignorance of the rules, circumstances or principles.
2. An uncontrollable rage.
3. An obsession for revenge.
4. A mental illness or personality disorder.
5. Loss of the will to live OR an unconscious urge to die.
6. A suicidal urge that drive certain people to put themselves consistently into dangerous situations.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... ath%20wish
Last edited by binocular on Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by binocular » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:23 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:30 am
Yes I thought the same when I posted it until I read the post from Pegembara.
Her'es a nice relatively short essay on this:
Ven. N. Nyanamoli: BREATHING TOWARDS DEATH

Practising the mindfulness of breathing correctly, means practising the mindfulness of death correctly.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

SarathW
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Re: Do you have to have the death wish to become a monk?

Post by SarathW » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:42 am

From the link provided by Binocular.

"A dying man can only rely upon his wisdom, if he developed it. Wisdom is not dependent upon any phenomenon originated upon six senses. It is developed on the basis of the discernment of the same. That’s why when one’s senses start to wither and die, the knowledge of their nature remains unaffected. When there is no wisdom, there will be despair, in the face of death."
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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