Ecology monks in Thailand

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
paul
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Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by paul » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:45 pm


SarathW
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by SarathW » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:13 pm

It is great to see any attempts to save the environment.
I am not sure whether it is the right livelihood for a Buddhist monk.
There are many fake monks in Thailand. If they do some services like protecting the environment is not a bad thing.
The question is whether this sort of rituals jeopardise the Buddha's real teaching or it is just a part of the parcel.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

paul
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by paul » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Interesting there is also an already existing ecology movement like this in Laos, perhaps together they represents the emerging face and direction of Theravada in Asia:

https://www.manilatimes.net/buddhist-vi ... nt/368313/

I think the forest environment is an essential foundation of meditation according to the repeated exhortation to “go to the foot of a tree,” and that in the suttas the forest figures as an indispensable setting for Theravada meditation, so protecting the forest amounts to conserving an element that went unquestioned in the Buddha's time.

SarathW
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by SarathW » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm

so protecting the forest amounts to conserving an element that went unquestioned in the Buddha's time.
I think Buddhist monks should spend their time to spread the message to eliminate greed, hatred, and delusion which will protect the forest and many other things. Protecting the forest is no different to protect your house. This is not the Buddha's message. Some monks do not protect the Vinaya but try to protect trees. Protecting trees is the layperson responsibility. There is already a rule to monks not to destroy seeds and the trees.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:04 am

Hi Sarath,
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm
I think Buddhist monks should spend their time to spread the message to eliminate greed, hatred, and delusion which will protect the forest and many other things.
Isn't that what they are doing?
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm
Protecting the forest is no different to protect your house. This is not the Buddha's message.
I don't understand this statement. The Buddha (and modern monks) gave (give) advice to lay people on how to live good lives, including being careful with property.
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm
Some monks do not protect the Vinaya but try to protect trees. ...
Do you know the monks mentioned in the article? If not, this does not seem to be a very useful comment.

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Mike

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Kim OHara
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:27 am

Thanks for both stories, Paul. I will share them on DWE when I have time, since they are right on topic for the new forum.

:namaste:
Kim

SarathW
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by SarathW » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:45 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:04 am
Hi Sarath,
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm
I think Buddhist monks should spend their time to spread the message to eliminate greed, hatred, and delusion which will protect the forest and many other things.
Isn't that what they are doing?
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm
Protecting the forest is no different to protect your house. This is not the Buddha's message.
I don't understand this statement. The Buddha (and modern monks) gave (give) advice to lay people on how to live good lives, including being careful with property.
SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:01 pm
Some monks do not protect the Vinaya but try to protect trees. ...
Do you know the monks mentioned in the article? If not, this does not seem to be a very useful comment.

:heart:
Mike
Hi Mike
I respect your opinion.
Environment issue is a political matter.
Monks can give general advice to householders but they should not become activists or involve with politics.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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gavesako
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by gavesako » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:09 am

Towards Interfaith Alliance for Rainforest

Phra Paisal Visalo
Nobel Peace Center, Oslo
19 June 2017

http://www.visalo.org/englishArticles/6006iriOslo.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

markandeya
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by markandeya » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:13 pm

SarathW wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:13 pm
It is great to see any attempts to save the environment.
I am not sure whether it is the right livelihood for a Buddhist monk.
There are many fake monks in Thailand. If they do some services like protecting the environment is not a bad thing.
The question is whether this sort of rituals jeopardise the Buddha's real teaching or it is just a part of the parcel.
What do you mean by right livelihood.

Bikkhus and ordained traditionally have always been well maintained and looked after by the lay community, its rare to see a an ordained person under fed, usually its the opposite, rarely are they without the basics unless they choose some outer tapas austerity before natural absorptions or are in an impoverished area.

Why do these people have to sit and be treated like deities, they have an obligation to serve society and press details that are needed within the world and offer enlightened choices and appeal to the larger awareness of the public. One of which is ecology, protecting the environment, planting trees, promoting self sufficiency. Awareness of all the things that bring harm to sentient beings, that is a full awareness of the ecology. Ordained play pivotal roles as being role models in many societies.

Its about time some of them gain some enlightened awareness rather than sitting pretty and collecting alms. The above Monks who are planting trees are setting the example.

paul
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by paul » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:55 pm

:goodpost: “Why do these people have to sit and be treated like deities, they have an obligation to serve society and press details that are needed within the world and offer enlightened choices and appeal to the larger awareness of the public. One of which is ecology, protecting the environment, planting trees, promoting self sufficiency. Awareness of all the things that bring harm to sentient beings, that is a full awareness of the ecology. Ordained play pivotal roles as being role models in many societies.”


We know that there are a lot of monks who aren’t naturally talented in meditation and would be better off serving the community. Apparently the monasteries acted as education centers for the villages in earlier times. In Vietnam, they go to the other extreme from the meditation role, where the main function of the monks is to serve the people; I think the ideal lies somewhere in the middle. Because the forest is fundamental to meditation, monks who are active in ecology are in fact teaching dhamma. From the suttas it's abundantly clear that meditation cannot proceed without the forest as starting point and ongoing support.

"a monk — not attending to the perception of village, not attending to the perception of human being — attends to the singleness based on the perception of wilderness."---MN 121

SarathW
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by SarathW » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:16 pm

We know that there are a lot of monks who aren’t naturally talented
This is a vicious circle. Why monks are not talented because their teachers are doing social work without guiding and teaching their students. They don't even educate the public. They trying to teach how to save the environment forgetting to teach people how to save themselves.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:23 pm

SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:16 pm
We know that there are a lot of monks who aren’t naturally talented
This is a vicious circle. Why monks are not talented because their teachers are doing social work without guiding and teaching their students. They don't even educate the public. They trying to teach how to save the environment forgetting to teach people how to save themselves.
There are undoubtedly some problems with some monks, as there will be in any organisation. But the kind of generalisation in this post seems pointless to me. Have you discussed these issues with monastics, and observed how they teach? Or are you simply reading the news articles?

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Mike

SarathW
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by SarathW » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 pm

are you simply reading the news articles?
I have listen to tons of Dhamma talk give by monks.
My understanding is some monks even do not have the basic knowledge of Sutta.
Instead of saving trees they should sit and read.
I don't think I will be a monk to save trees. I can do it without becoming a monk.
However, a monk can use the saving forest as a theme or springboard to teach Dhamma.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Kim OHara
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:21 pm

SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 pm
However, a monk can use the saving forest as a theme or springboard to teach Dhamma.
And if you go back to the Thai and Lao examples Paul posted, you will see that they are doing exactly that.

:namaste:
Kim

SarathW
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Re: Ecology monks in Thailand

Post by SarathW » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:23 pm

:goodpost:
Kim OHara wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:21 pm
SarathW wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 pm
However, a monk can use the saving forest as a theme or springboard to teach Dhamma.
And if you go back to the Thai and Lao examples Paul posted, you will see that they are doing exactly that.

:namaste:
Kim
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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