Purge of Thai sangha

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
paul
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Purge of Thai sangha

Post by paul » Wed May 30, 2018 10:25 pm

"According to Buddhist belief, everything degenerates over time. From time to time, Buddhist kings exercise their power to purify the Sangha, halting the degeneration process."
Senior monks arrested:
https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opi ... hai-sangha

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 am

Yes, there needs to be a huge purge, with tens of thousands of monks defrocked.
Starting with all those who accept and use money, which is perhaps as much as 90% of Thai bhikkhus. So, more than tens of thousands!
I understand such a huge purge happened in the past, hundreds of years ago for the same reasons, corrupt and lose monks.

SarathW
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by SarathW » Thu May 31, 2018 2:38 am

Hi James
Considering that you had the first hand experience, is it possible a monk in modern day to live without handling money?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu May 31, 2018 3:10 am

i dont know the in's and out's of the vinaya, but how is it a government's right at all to regulate the saṅgha?
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 31, 2018 3:33 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 3:10 am
i dont know the in's and out's of the vinaya, but how is it a government's right at all to regulate the saṅgha?
According to vinaya the government has absolutely no right to control or regulate the sangha. Governments do make laws though, and the Buddha instructed his monks to obey the law.
In Thailand I think it was King Mongkut about 150 years ago, who decided the government could disrobe monks and kick out bad monks, even though the vinaya doesn't allow for this.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 31, 2018 3:36 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 2:38 am
Hi James
Considering that you had the first hand experience, is it possible a monk in modern day to live without handling money?
Absolutely yes. Even in western countries there are enough lay-buddhists around to enable a monk to survive with no money. Even away from a monastery.
And in Thailand, Burma, Sri Lanka, it is even easier. But largely for convenience, and out of laziness and disregard for the vinaya, many monks in those countries use money.

Saengnapha
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by Saengnapha » Thu May 31, 2018 3:55 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 am
Yes, there needs to be a huge purge, with tens of thousands of monks defrocked.
Starting with all those who accept and use money, which is perhaps as much as 90% of Thai bhikkhus. So, more than tens of thousands!
I understand such a huge purge happened in the past, hundreds of years ago for the same reasons, corrupt and lose monks.
Perhaps the monkhood is an outdated institution?

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 31, 2018 4:19 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 3:55 am
Perhaps the monkhood is an outdated institution?
Not at all. As long as there are laypeople who are willing to support monks, and as long as there are people who become monks, it is not an outdated institution.
There is large financial and material support for monks and monasteries, and there's also demand for ordination, and waiting lists in many western monasteries.

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Mr Man
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by Mr Man » Thu May 31, 2018 7:04 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 am
Yes, there needs to be a huge purge, with tens of thousands of monks defrocked.
Starting with all those who accept and use money, which is perhaps as much as 90% of Thai bhikkhus. So, more than tens of thousands!
I understand such a huge purge happened in the past, hundreds of years ago for the same reasons, corrupt and lose monks.
That's unlikely to happen. Buddhism, as it is now, and Thai society are inextricably interrelated, in my opinion.

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Mr Man
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by Mr Man » Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am

There is another article here -
Purging the Thai Sangha
http://www.newmandala.org/ncpos-purge-thai-sangha/

Is this correct?
King Asoka of Maurya India set an example when he tried and executed monks who failed to satisfy his standard of Buddhist knowledge and behaviour

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 31, 2018 7:09 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 am
Yes, there needs to be a huge purge, with tens of thousands of monks defrocked.
Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:04 am
That's unlikely to happen. Buddhism, as it is now, and Thai society are inextricably interrelated, in my opinion.
Yes, you're quite right. There's also hundreds of billions of bhat involved in monasteries these days, and corrupt monks can buy corrupt politicians.
Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am
King Asoka of Maurya India set an example when he tried and executed monks who failed to satisfy his standard of Buddhist knowledge and behaviour
OH my goodness! I never heard of that. Gosh.

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robertk
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by robertk » Thu May 31, 2018 8:28 am

Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am
There is another article here -
Purging the Thai Sangha
http://www.newmandala.org/ncpos-purge-thai-sangha/

Is this correct?
King Asoka of Maurya India set an example when he tried and executed monks who failed to satisfy his standard of Buddhist knowledge and behaviour
of course it is not true.
What happened is that the sangha was going through a schism - with new sects breaking away from the Theravada: the only one upholding SaddhaDhamma.

Asoka thought it was worrying that the monks were not in concord so sent one of his ministers with instructions to try to get them to reconcile.

The minister - a man of great experience in martial activities- was not pleased when the Theravada would not agree to to recite the patimokka with the wrong viewers.
so a group of monks were sitting in a line and he worked down the line: asking them to agree and then beheading them one by one( as the good monks could never reconcile with those schismatics). then a monk who was known to the minister, I think it might have been Mahinda, asoka's son, went and sat in the line. the minister then stopped and went and reported to the King, who was horrified by the report.

( i am reciting by memory- might have a couple of small details wrong)

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Mr Man
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by Mr Man » Thu May 31, 2018 9:19 am

robertk wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:28 am
of course it is not true.
Thanks robertk.

2600htz
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by 2600htz » Thu May 31, 2018 4:47 pm

Hello:

Is it true that most Asian monasteries are now cultural centers with little to no interest in practicing what the Buddha taught?.
If that is true western monasteries or forest traditions are a better option at this time?.

Regards.

James Tan
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Re: Purge of Thai sangha

Post by James Tan » Thu May 31, 2018 5:07 pm

robertk wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:28 am
Mr Man wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am
There is another article here -
Purging the Thai Sangha
http://www.newmandala.org/ncpos-purge-thai-sangha/

Is this correct?
King Asoka of Maurya India set an example when he tried and executed monks who failed to satisfy his standard of Buddhist knowledge and behaviour
of course it is not true.
What happened is that the sangha was going through a schism - with new sects breaking away from the Theravada: the only one upholding SaddhaDhamma.

Asoka thought it was worrying that the monks were not in concord so sent one of his ministers with instructions to try to get them to reconcile.


The minister - a man of great experience in martial activities- was not pleased when the Theravada would not agree to to recite the patimokka with the wrong viewers.
so a group of monks were sitting in a line and he worked down the line: asking them to agree and then beheading them one by one( as the good monks could never reconcile with those schismatics). then a monk who was known to the minister, I think it might have been Mahinda, asoka's son, went and sat in the line. the minister then stopped and went and reported to the King, who was horrified by the report.

( i am reciting by memory- might have a couple of small details wrong)
According to a new research by a monk (called vupasama), the so called Theravada today is not exactly the original Theravada as what most people seem to be. He said the schism was caused by Asoka himself . I have not been able to get his book yet but listened to his talk before .
:reading:

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