Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Samana Johann 1
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Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:41 am

Split from: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=31456


Look at this smiling and defilements touching faces.

My person is trying to imaging Ven Gotami and her following approach the walls in this way, full of greed, smiling, fat, living in luxury, total unrestrained and bearing the full set of defilements... not even best foundations at least capable to do not split on the Buddha, short after his sacrificing on the Sanghas wish...

Funerals are good events, to increase samvega. So in this regard, celebrating the death of Sangha of both sides and ordination of Pippi Longstocking by Devadattas ordained p(b)ride will not leave doubt to hurry. Monks and Nuns on D&D - Sutta Central

Freedom (non restraint) for trade and slaves! Time for plunder.

Hurra, rah-rah rally, or hail, hail, hail or what ever prevered in Maras bound.

The fool feeds his executioner is the natural law of Samsara that keep it resist, bound to Brahma possessed by Mara. This is real, lasting! Don't ever blame Baka and his host.

May it be the estimated acting to the given maneuver, only if won over your self participate while no more part of it, might give others inspirations to avoid those which for building household from trading off juwels for the sake of their (b)prides...

My person don't think that the word "deutschtümmelei" is really understood... it means touching the fire thinking being a smart player and strategist... it means to make use of fools for ones benefit, thinking fools will not later eat of the "supporter". It's a kammic heritage of greedy people thinking their greed is compassion... of benefit for both. Like the pig raiser might justify his deeds, he nevertheless, out of his corruption will end up like his feeds. That's a wheel, dramawheel.

Less are those who have been not gravely corrupted by monks.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:58 am

Venerable, may I express my surprise that you are so full of anger and hate towards these people. It is not good to see a monk so full of defilements towards people practising sincerely.
What is wrong with women following the 311 Bhikkhunis rules, and wearing the robes, just as women did in the Buddha's time?
The Bhikkhuni lineage never died out in China, and these bhikkhunis are ordained as full bhikkhunis through that lineage. There is nothing to stop a mahayana nun becoming a theravada nun, the ordination does not have to be done again.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by DooDoot » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:55 am



Ayya Suvijjana Tuesday Night Dhamma 2017 - The Five Aggregates

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by ieee23 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:26 pm

I have zero problems with it. In fact, I think it is a good thing.

I became a Buddhist for what the Buddha's teachings could do for me and other people.

Making it possible for women to ordain allows more people so inclined to pursue the Buddha's teachings full time.

I don't care about institutional rules, problems etc that came after the Buddha.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:46 am

the deleted post by planet... contained a question like: "why was this post of a Troll(someone disturbing out of ill-will and seeks for destruction) was given a gift by making a topic out of it."
It is good that this question appears, Cosmologist. For the path could even be seen if the questioner, or giver simply had another purpose, a bad one, not one to gain release but to win outwardly.

So the giver Mike and you, Cosmologist, not to speak of many others, can find, if conditions are ripe, the whole issue here, in and of itself by listening to the Buddhas words:

To Prince Abhaya (On Right Speech)

It's "just an assuming" to think (possible know) that the giver of the topic as well as your gift had possible ill-will wraped in generosity as intend. Who knows aside of the doer if willing to investigate of what qualities actions are?

This is Dhamma is not easy to see and it's not easy to discriminate between the abhaya of a fool and the abhaya of a wise.

What ever Dhamma is put into a corrupted heard will be just for the destruction of goodness, for him who takes if for worily sakes an low gains.

Feel free to make merits or seek for gain.

Be informed that politics and chess are no means to gain the path. For the wise does not think "I will then do this for that...", follow the Uposatha of the cowboys, but if something required give out of having made a skill really his own. One might remember the similie of the wheel-maker (mayby someone likes to add the Sutta, where the Buddha answered a king whether he speaks spontanious or has a plan with a simily of the Kings knowlege of chariots and it's parts)

You are not required to take a impure gift, one off course. But you can learn to investigate your own mind first so that you might know that of others.

Correct, if something here was wrong, cosmologist.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by ryanM » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:36 am

This community is, more or less, very moderate and tolerable. I'm sorry, but you won't easily find a home here if things continue in this fashion.

I'm happy to see we have 3 more nuns in the Buddha's sangha.
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya

"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:02 am

Greetings Ryan,
ryanM wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:36 am
I'm happy to see we have 3 more nuns in the Buddha's sangha.
I concur. I'm not an advocate of this kind of feminist chicanery, but I am an advocate of the existence of a bhikkhuni order that is dedicated to following the 311 bhikkhuni rules.

In fact, a couple of days ago I was pleasantly surprised to learn from a Dhamma Wheel member that there's actually a small Theravada Bhikkhuni Sangha that has been newly established within two suburbs of where I live. I look forward to visiting and seeing if there are any opportunities to offer support.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by DooDoot » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:12 am

:alien:
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Samana Johann 1
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Re: Criticism of triple bhikkhuni ordination in Los Angeles

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:41 am

ryanM wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:36 am
This community is, more or less, very moderate and tolerable. I'm sorry, but you won't easily find a home here if things continue in this fashion.
If such as taking it as home would be reqired, my person would not give into it at all. It does not mean that it is not understandable that people seek for a home at the wrong place... (signs, smells...ideas)

And again, there are many reason why one would like to appear "liberal". To think "sure?" is always wise, aspecially if not really knowing but relaying on what ever preoccupations.


I'm happy to see we have 3 more nuns in the Buddha's sangha.
It's already hard if even possible to find a qualified numbers of monks, and neither the Buddha nor any captain would be happy to have woman on a sinking boat. That was why he made a second ship.

So what aside of sign, smell, sound, taste...ideas of identification do you like at nuns? What makes you feel more happy, preferances, allowing you to accept possible grave mistakes? Setting your ideas above the Buddha and the Theras seeing the orange monks doing ordinations for "pig-blood"-colored robes wearing woman after smiling at milk-tee time?
ieee23 wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:26 pm
I have zero problems with it. In fact, I think it is a good thing.

I became a Buddhist for what the Buddha's teachings could do for me and other people.

Making it possible for women to ordain allows more people so inclined to pursue the Buddha's teachings full time.

I don't care about institutional rules, problems etc that came after the Buddha.
Yes, yes... the good old times of the Buddha, where he send out his monks to make public opinion polls in the villages... sadly the later made rules to prevent from being driven by desires of the mass... (and that was of cource in a "sarcastic" tone given to reflect a little bit wise about demo-cracy and power to defilments)

As the Buddha told here, one is really not wise to think that outwardly freedom by no one taming is really a release if full of defilements.

That is why the Buddha soon stopped to participate in the Sangha-actions, leaved it to their abbilities to decide wise. Now if you think that those Sangha-members pulling now the public into Sangha issues instead of what is left from the Buddha are wise... you certain have now idea about Mara and his host.

So it's always good to learn from the Buddha and maybe a new "release" and account at the first section of DN1 helps.

As well as the matter of: Debts, but to whom? and the different kinds of Goodness

Again, to make a citation:
A Bhikkhu ends his article with another analogy: The religion is like an elephant with three sound legs (the bhikkhus, the male lay followers, and female lay followers) and one crippled leg (the bhikkhunīs). The reinstating of the Bhikkhunī Saṅgha, he says, would heal the crippled leg and allow the elephant to walk easily.
But again, the analogy is inaccurate. A more accurate analogy would be this: The religion is like an elephant with a severed leg. A doctor wants to reattach the leg, even though it has long been dead, and his tools for doing so are contaminated. If the operation goes forward, it will hasten the elephant’s death
There is really no problem if it's for learning who to rearrach a leg on a dead elefant like in this case, but anyhow, it was not needed to make this sacrifices, for woman would maybe have still possibilities and those are distroyed by fools getting out with their ego and conceit trips.

If not loving and trusting the teacher (Buddha and his disciples, not even those, previous from other sects) and give him not higher position as everyone else in this world, even if having great body-debts toward, that there is no chance that he would accept you and also no way to learn his skills even if thinking it could be made by "thievery" just doing as if.

The wise way is how ever, to leave the places of color and to know in which district you are in, if still not able to leave the cities and markets behind.

Aside of broad believe, not knowing does not protect, vijja is actually the reason for suffering. So stay attentive in investigation, for it's not easy for householder to know who is on the path or at it's aim. Sometimes its good to seek Seclusion first.

[It would be wrong understood if thinking that this posts are not exclusively given toward the Noble Sangha and those capable to following them, but for gaining a home for a kitchen.]
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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