Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
fornoxe
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Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:26 pm

hi

I still have questions about witch place I should order.

Indeed, I was thinking like you should know about sri lanka. Better a small place.

But also, I know we have some in Europe, in theravada tradition. And especially in monk forest. One in near London I think so.

And like comments about people or monk who make both. I will be perfect.

How good are abbot in europe monastery? Because you cant ask for food in the street (in france), how they find food? Money is come from laic people as a dana?

In europe, monk choose to become a monk. I mean in Asia, I could be that also, sure, but also because the culture say : one family member must go in monestery (like in france for rich people no so far away), or food/health problem. Thats mean (its a question) thats white monk are kind of "better sila" ?

Did you notice any difference?
Do you know a monk forest monestery where they speak english? Obvious uk but any else?
Do you a place where a abbot is famous and develop for himself jhina?

Lot of question, sorry for that.

To put in the nutshell : Europe or sri lanka? And if you say you should stay in Europe, explain me why.


Cheers

The frogest monk :D
Last edited by fornoxe on Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rightviewftw
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as asian?

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:36 pm

Imho, Ideally you should visit and try it out to see if it suits you in regards to alms, instruction/support, personalities, duties, supporters (if it is busy or not), the vinaya and views.

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as asian?

Post by fornoxe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:50 pm

travelling in Europe could be OK. I just have a car. No house. Do you have name ?

But travelling in sri lanka, and after Myanmar and Malaysia (SBS), Thats too big for my wallet. One country its ok.

I'm agree with your post. I am just scare europe country ask big big money. In france, for retreat, they ask 50usd/day. Its huge.

thanks

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Samana Johann 1
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:15 pm

It's a good start to walk, if wishing to meet the tradition of forest monks and not just lable use. Only to give up household should require to let go of money to go forth. Oneway ticket is ok and in the same and proper way of one leaving and not in search for a new home.

What do you think, if thinking about it in this way? Kind of arising of strange joy or being somehow filled with fear?
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

rightviewftw
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as asian?

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:32 pm

fornoxe wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:50 pm
travelling in Europe could be OK. I just have a car. No house. Do you have name ?

But travelling in sri lanka, and after Myanmar and Malaysia (SBS), Thats too big for my wallet. One country its ok.

I'm agree with your post. I am just scare europe country ask big big money. In france, for retreat, they ask 50usd/day. Its huge.

thanks
Should not cost you anything to stay at a monastery and help out for a while if they have room.
Perhaps talk to www.slo-theravada.org/samanadipa / https://www.facebook.com/samanadipa
Also for travel money if you really plan on ordaining something can be sorted out imo..
I am sure bunch of people me incl would contribute, perhaps the monastery would even help you out.

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:02 pm

Samana Johann 1 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:15 pm
It's a good start to walk, if wishing to meet the tradition of forest monks and not just lable use. Only to give up household should require to let go of money to go forth. Oneway ticket is ok and in the same and proper way of one leaving and not in search for a new home.

What do you think, if thinking about it in this way? Kind of arising of strange joy or being somehow filled with fear?
I try to understand everything but I am not sure.

What do you mean by :
-start to walk. You say I just hike to different monestery? I did some juge trek. In Nepal and anothers places in Europe. I just try to sell my 4wd, but i could not.
-just lable use? I dont understand. Just as a simple worker there?

I am not afraid about doing job to be integrate. I dont care. If you say something like that. I know maybe in asian specially, we have to do that at the beginning. No?

I dont have house, debt. no wife and childrens. I chose to be free like that 10y ago. almost at the end of my law study. A bit like christopher mac candeless (film into the wild).

No fear, no joy. I am happy in my life. I just want to go deeply inside.

Kind of exitation maybe. But even I did some vipassana retreat, I dont know what is really monk way of life. I read some people dissapointing. I will just see.

Basicly, my first idea was, with my 4wd to go in mountain and meditate where I am. With a huge and full confort tent (wood stove in). But IT and sensation are still on for me.

Connect with my identity who is just love. Thats is hapiness.
I experienced a huge strong experience in rainbow gathering. Witout drugs obvisous.

love is as real as gravity.

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as asian?

Post by fornoxe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:05 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:32 pm
fornoxe wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:50 pm
travelling in Europe could be OK. I just have a car. No house. Do you have name ?

But travelling in sri lanka, and after Myanmar and Malaysia (SBS), Thats too big for my wallet. One country its ok.

I'm agree with your post. I am just scare europe country ask big big money. In france, for retreat, they ask 50usd/day. Its huge.

thanks
Should not cost you anything to stay at a monastery and help out for a while if they have room.
Perhaps talk to www.slo-theravada.org/samanadipa / https://www.facebook.com/samanadipa
Also for travel money if you really plan on ordaining something can be sorted out imo..
I am sure bunch of people me incl would contribute, perhaps the monastery would even help you out.
It should. I wrote to the french monestery. Few days ago, i fear my mail was not very ... lovely (coz 50d/day). But if I have a response, thats mean they are not attach. Its a good sign.

But, maybe its because my english is too bad. I really want to understand the difference between monestery and theravada branch. Difference application of rules and way of life.

rightviewftw
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as asian?

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm

fornoxe wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:05 pm
It should. I wrote to the french monestery. Few days ago, i fear my mail was not very ... lovely (coz 50d/day).
I do not think this is normal, usually Theravadin Monasteries do not charge for retreats even.

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:28 pm

Theravada or any tradition should be the same

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Nwad
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by Nwad » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:10 am

Bonjour mon ami :)

Iam french too and i want to ordain too. But i dont understand what is your real question...:(

If you want to ordain in SriLanka or other tropical country you have to know all about dangers of illnesses, animals, parasites, climat specificity etc
If you want to ordain in England you have to know that you should visit a monastery at least 2-3 times before becoming anagarika, then spend one year before ask for training as samanera and after a year you can ask for full ordination as bhikkhu, so at least 3years before full ordination.

I suggest you to read Patimokkha (227 monastic rules)

I dont know what you mean by love, but theravada practice is more about equanimity rather love, equanimity is a pure form of love.

Metta :anjali:

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as asian?

Post by fornoxe » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:46 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm
fornoxe wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:05 pm
It should. I wrote to the french monestery. Few days ago, i fear my mail was not very ... lovely (coz 50d/day).
I do not think this is normal, usually Theravadin Monasteries do not charge for retreats even.
can you send me your email by pm. I cant respond. I dont know why.

Cheers

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:13 am

Nwad wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:10 am
Bonjour mon ami :)

Iam french too and i want to ordain too. But i dont understand what is your real question...:(

If you want to ordain in SriLanka or other tropical country you have to know all about dangers of illnesses, animals, parasites, climat specificity etc
If you want to ordain in England you have to know that you should visit a monastery at least 2-3 times before becoming anagarika, then spend one year before ask for training as samanera and after a year you can ask for full ordination as bhikkhu, so at least 3years before full ordination.

I suggest you to read Patimokkha (227 monastic rules)

I dont know what you mean by love, but theravada practice is more about equanimity rather love, equanimity is a pure form of love.

Metta :anjali:
I am a traveller, I know quite well some country. I never been in Sri lanka, but I know pretty well Nepal, thailande cambodia and Lao. I stayed there more or less 10 months.
I dont care about order Srilanka and what ever country. I am searching witch place is the best to learn and order ;) I think you should have difference between western and asian monastery. I would like to know what kind of difference. If the life is more or less the same. Any difference abbout Vinaya application.
I already know Patimokha. i read rules on a french website. (je me souviens du tu ne dois pas pisser debout :D ).
I did 4 vipassana retreat and I live since almost 10years now without materials things.

Since 10years, I try to find my own response about what is hapiness. 10y ago, I understood society will never give any any hapiness by new phone or new car. I quit everything to live like a obo.
And finally, after 10y, bouddhism could have response.

ANd when I spoke about love, Its just my word. I had two very specific experience. Its hard to explain. Like metaphysic stuff. And during and after thats, i felt somethings really crazy good inside me. Like I can fly, connecting, loving, every life in this planet. I felt (like i can fell wood and a car) love and whatever It was 2 times. One, god, love, whatever I was.


:toast:

So, I would like to know :
-difference between asian and western monastery? vinaya application, especially about money
-How many groups of forest monk (les courants au sein des moines de la foret) ?


Maybe also, I should explain my point of view. Could be wrong.

I would like to find somewhere where the vinaya application is strict because :
-where is money, asian spiritual tradtion become weird and only think about money. You can find very vry expensive meditation in France and I am sure in each country in western part. Where a ""guru"" is here to make more cash. And if a guru or what ever want more cash that mean his mind is "dirty". I want to be near a abbot, a poor one, just staying under a simple tree.
I remember in Lumbini, the money mountain where monk do during a while at the end of each day the count. One monk ask me money very seriously. like give me something.
No way.
I just want water stream, a bit of food in the morning. Good bouddhism book. My own place for meditation, with a roof for rain. And wall in cold country.

Not so much monk, with a good abbot who speak english (or french lol), far far faar away from politic (myanmar and recently sri lanka... :( ).
A monk who went very deeply in vipassana and know jhana.

I like mountain and very very peaceful place.

But before that, I must understand deeply theravada. My both topic are here for that.


Thanks to everyone for the hand :) :jumping:

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Nwad
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by Nwad » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:24 am

:anjali:

Ive never been in any monastery (only the Plum Village of Thich Nhat Hann), so i dont know by myself any difference. Anyway i prefere western monasteries with it Discipline.

I hope someone could help us with responses to yours questions ;)

Content de voir un autre francais souhaitant ordoner :) In England there is at least 3 french bhikkhus and samaneras, who knows, perhps with more french bhikkhus one french forest monastery will arise... ;)

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:32 pm

Nwad wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:24 am
:anjali:

Ive never been in any monastery (only the Plum Village of Thich Nhat Hann), so i dont know by myself any difference. Anyway i prefere western monasteries with it Discipline.

I hope someone could help us with responses to yours questions ;)

Content de voir un autre francais souhaitant ordoner :) In England there is at least 3 french bhikkhus and samaneras, who knows, perhps with more french bhikkhus one french forest monastery will arise... ;)
Do you know the french monastery?
http://bodhinyanarama.org/

you wrote : "Anyway i prefere western monasteries with it Discipline."
Can you explain that please?

Perhaps I will do starting by my own meditation during my 2 months trekking. Under a tree. That the place where I feel the best for me. After a kind of very party summer as usual with my friends, to say kind of good bye. October I will go in Nepal or Sri lanka as a guide for my grandpa (not sure 100% he is a old man). After that I will start my living under my tent and try my own lonely experience or doing that in a monastery.

Exemple :
https://www.la-croix.com/Religion/Actua ... 01-1172763
in this article, say a castle was use for theravada meeting. OK
you read the article...and...
Magic tattoos

Other faithful come here to "activate their sakyant", these tattoos traditionally drawn with bamboo needle by monks, but which are most often made with electric stylus in secular stalls.

As a result, many come to ask the monks to give them magic properties. "They think it protects them from the blows of fate," Kan fun, visibly satisfied with this fashion that brings him each time a hundred euros.

"Here, we are very much in superstition and ritualism," summarizes Ewald Fauser, making no secret that the monks of Moissy-Cramayel are very concerned about money.


OK monk knows that not working (we are not in diamond véhicule). But because they can have 100box, they do it.

Please dont go too further in this discussion about money. Just keep in my mind the first post :)

EmptyShadow
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by EmptyShadow » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:06 pm

fornoxe wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:13 am
far far faar away from politic (myanmar and recently sri lanka... :( ).
I think that both in Myanmar and Sri lanka there are good monasteries with good abbots who follow strict vinaya, teach and practice the Dhamma well and stay aways from politics whatsoever. If you are worried about those countries because of the political situation in them you could miss a good opportunity.

As far as the Europe(Western) monasteries from the forest tradition I think that thay all follow strict vinaya and offer good conditions for practicing the Dhamma. Other than Europe there are good monasteries in US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

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Nwad
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by Nwad » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:38 pm

Do you know the french monastery?
http://bodhinyanarama.org/
Oh yes its true, i forgot this monastry, but i as i know this monastry is just affiliated to Ajhan Chah lineage, and not a part of it. Also i dont know if Abbot of this monastry can give full ordination.
It would be better for me to visit it ;) Why you dont go here actualy?
you wrote : "Anyway i prefere western monasteries with it Discipline."
Can you explain that please?
As i know from other peoples, there is many monastries in traditional buddhist countries where Vinaya is not well respected (money, internet etc) so unless to search on the place a good one or go to a one who is recomendet to you.
I am not a knower of SriLanka so i cant help you here :(

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:56 pm

I wrote a mail to the french monestery. How they works, the application of vinaya and why they take 50e by days for meditation retreat.
Still no response.
For me the most important rules (after monastic sex and murder who is alive) is the relationship with money.
Someone send me a mp with a monastery : SBS in malaysia. where the big boss of theravada is. But i am scare its too huge for me. I like small community.

I am vegan also. I know it is not possible to choose food in asian country. (I really cant eat meat, cheese and milk can be ok sometime). But for western country?

Who that works for monk in western country? They dont go to street for asking food? :popcorn:

:anjali:

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:35 pm

Muttodaya looks like a nice place. Small, not a retreat for lay people. Some kuti.

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Nwad
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by Nwad » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:06 pm

fornoxe wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:56 pm
I wrote a mail to the french monestery. How they works, the application of vinaya and why they take 50e by days for meditation retreat.
Still no response.
For me the most important rules (after monastic sex and murder who is alive) is the relationship with money.
Someone send me a mp with a monastery : SBS in malaysia. where the big boss of theravada is. But i am scare its too huge for me. I like small community.

I am vegan also. I know it is not possible to choose food in asian country. (I really cant eat meat, cheese and milk can be ok sometime). But for western country?

Who that works for monk in western country? They dont go to street for asking food? :popcorn:

:anjali:
In Cittaviveka in England Ajhan Succito teach lay peoples about VG and ask them to bring only VG food in monastery. I'am vegan too ;)

fornoxe
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Re: Europe monastery (forest monk) as good as in asian?

Post by fornoxe » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:46 pm

Good to know ;)

So you should or have to bring food there? Everyone there is vegan?

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