Is Alliance for Bhikkhunis a support or a threat to the Bhikkunis order?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Bhikkhu_Jayasara
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Re: Is Alliance for Bhikkhunis a support or a threat to the Bhikkunis order?

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:19 am

one thing I'd like to make clear in case it gets muddled, is that my direct response above is not about Bhikkhunis, it's a direct response to a question connected with a general trend in western Buddhism, that just so happened to occur on this thread. My first post in this topic above is my response to the OP question.
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Mr Man
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Re: Is Alliance for Bhikkhunis a support or a threat to the Bhikkunis order?

Post by Mr Man » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:48 pm

Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:45 pm
Firstly I'd like to thank you, Mr. Man, for giving me this opportunity to explore and solidify my feelings on this situation in Western Buddhism. I tend to avoid quick posting when more detail and mindfulness is needed, so I took my time in responding, yes this will be a wall of text, but your question demands a deep answer.

It is not a surprise, nor a new understanding, that the overwhelming majority of convert Buddhists in America have liberal leanings. This makes perfect sense as people who are liberal minded tend to be more open to something like changing their religion, while conservative people are more likely to stick with what they were raised with , or at least not seek out any other frameworks to explore.

So not coincidentally, we have very liberal western Buddhists, in whose culture Buddhism is a new occurrence, and very conservative people from Buddhist countries. I see this play out at my own monastery, where some westerners come with pro left wing bumper stickers, and some of the immigrants from Buddhist countries come with pro right wing bumper stickers. I also see this play out on a variety of Buddhist forums that mix westerners and people raised in Buddhist cultures, like here and SC.

As I mentioned before, in lay life I skirted the middle between these two extremes, so I can somewhat understand the positions of both. Even in my own personal “Buddhism”, I feel much should be conserved, and some can be updated, the hard question is in the details of what is conserved, and what is updated.

With that all said, I think I can now move towards the meat of the question. The first thing I’d like to point out, is our two original statements. You immediately latched on to certain words from the original post, presumably ones that caused offense, and immediately demanded I answer for posing some agreement with the OP. I think a careful reading of my comment should be seen though :

I would also like to know, while I don't agree with some of what the person says, I think this paragraph is pretty apt to what I am seeing in some western buddhist circles today.
I latched on to those particular words because those were the words showing in the post that I replied to. Have a look

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=31298&start=40#p465753

I had understood, wrongly it seems, that although you disagreed with some of what was said you found the particular line, that was showing in the post you were respondin to, apt.

However that does not change my view that you have a strong disposition to a particular political bias, which is not necessarily "party political" and you put that bias forward.

What is interesting is that you like to cast yourself as a neutral but say that your post is likely to appeal to the right and be seen as an attack on the left. You see the for potential for divisiveness but post what you imagine is going to be divisive. You want to keep politics out of Buddhism but it seems you can't help yourself.

In an earlier post you wrote
I've also spoken with 4-5 women who want to ordain as Bhikkhunis, have been to the normal places in America, and do not wish to ordain there because they simply want to be monastics and practice Dhamma, not go out to protests with signs.
Where are the normal places where Bhikkhunis are obliged to go out to protests with signs?

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Bhikkhu_Jayasara
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Re: Is Alliance for Bhikkhunis a support or a threat to the Bhikkunis order?

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:17 pm

However that does not change my view that you have a strong disposition to a particular political bias, which is not necessarily "party political" and you put that bias forward.

What is interesting is that you like to cast yourself as a neutral but say that your post is likely to appeal to the right and be seen as an attack on the left. You see the for potential for divisiveness but post what you imagine is going to be divisive. You want to keep politics out of Buddhism but it seems you can't help yourself.
You can never really do anything about another persons view, hence , in this divisive atmosphere today, I made the assumption that people would view it one way or another, so I could counter both to say it is not that.

It is obvious to me that you wish to continue to be combative, in this thread, and I've seen in plenty others, so I will end this here, I had no intention to change your view, you are entitled to it, but my perspective has been laid out, so I'll call it a day.
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dylanj
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Re: Is Alliance for Bhikkhunis a support or a threat to the Bhikkunis order?

Post by dylanj » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:16 am

robertk wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:13 am
In my opinion, as the Bhikkuni order became extinct centuries ago, and at least in Theravada cannot be resuscitated, your analogy would be better if you were suggesting funds be devoted to reviving the dodo. Or putting funds and support into assisting meichii.

There will be again bhikkhuni( and possibly Dodo too) in the far off future during the sasana of the next Buddha.
not true, please check the vinaya itself

https://snfwrenms.wordpress.com/2011/09 ... e-revived/
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Is Alliance for Bhikkhunis a support or a threat to the Bhikkunis order?

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 5:48 pm

SarathW wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:49 pm
“One to whom it might occur,
‘I’m a woman’ or ‘I’m a man’
Or ‘I’m anything at all’—
Is fit for Mara to address.”
:goodpost:

Well said.
:goodpost:
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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