How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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SarathW
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How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm

I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
Now I do not how to take it.




http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... lE7C9-WbV8
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Sam Vara
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:46 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
Now I do not how to take it.
Watch his videos about depression, review his teachings critically, and don't go back to his kuti with him.

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DNS
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by DNS » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:53 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Now I do not how to take it.
“And if a tamable person doesn’t submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, what do you do?”
“If a tamable person doesn’t submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, then I kill him, Kesi.”

Figuratively 'kill' him, of course. :tongue:
(ignore him)
Kesi Sutta
https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.111

perkele
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by perkele » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:10 pm

DNS wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:53 pm
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Now I do not how to take it.
“And if a tamable person doesn’t submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, what do you do?”
“If a tamable person doesn’t submit either to a mild training or to a harsh training or to a mild & harsh training, then I kill him, Kesi.”

Figuratively 'kill' him, of course. :tongue:
(ignore him)
Kesi Sutta
https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.111
What, has Sarath tried to train him? Makes no sense.

Sarath, did you train this monk?

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DNS
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by DNS » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:17 pm

perkele wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:10 pm
What, has Sarath tried to train him? Makes no sense.
Sarath, did you train this monk?
I'm speaking generally, of course, not specifically. One should just ignore such a monk, imo.

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aflatun
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by aflatun » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:38 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:46 pm
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
Now I do not how to take it.
Watch his videos about depression, review his teachings critically, and don't go back to his kuti with him.
:twothumbsup: Exactly what I would (and wouldn't) do...

Also SarathW, since you have a new found taste for Vajrayana, I suggest you turn your attention to Teachers who have no such scandals associated with them. If you start with the dead, its easier :)
Last edited by aflatun on Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

Meezer77
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by Meezer77 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:41 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
Now I do not how to take it.




http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... lE7C9-WbV8
That's samsara for you

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DooDoot
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:05 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
His talk I heard live 12 years ago about depression was terrible & condescending. His laughter was misplaced. Many people left the room. It was very disappointing. He just talked Tibetan ideas about gratitude to mothers. It was alien to the large audience, many from the local university. However, the next day I attended a meditation empowerment with him & came to respect him highly. He transmitted a great performance of metta meditation.
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
He immediately expected his followers to forgive him, despite the vicious nature of his actions; which included financial exploitation; used to purchase investment properties (real estate).
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Now I do not how to take it.
I had no confusion. I immediately fired/sacked him in my hierarchy of respect. Even though he once gave me a very auspicious Tibetan name and even though I still have a coloured string he gave me (in my old wallet), I never attend his talks when he visits where I live. I sacked or banned him. He appears to be similar to Chögyam Trungpa, i.e., highly scholarly learned but without basic goodness.

:geek:

santa100
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by santa100 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:25 am

SarathW wrote:Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about hima. Now I do not how to take it.
This is the guy you mentioned? Man, talking about unmatched job security. While sleazy movie directors, actors, and politicians are being fired after getting caught, a "spiritual teacher" can carry on business as usual, still getting a free ride for everything, still preaching and possibly still...screwing his female followers. Hence, if you really think about it, he's screwing all those who are still providing him with moral or financial support!

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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:46 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:05 am
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
Now I do not how to take it.
I had no confusion. I immediately fired/sacked him in my hierarchy of respect. Even though he once gave me a very auspicious Tibetan name and even though I still have a coloured string he gave me (in my old wallet), I never attend his talks when he visits where I live. I sacked or banned him. He appears to be similar to Chögyam Trungpa, i.e., highly scholarly learned but without basic goodness.

:geek:
Why would anyone listen to someone who has not gone past the 5 Hindrances? This is so basic. Even a therapist needs to have moved past their own emotional reactivity to be of real use to another. There is no room for argument here. Many teachers are involved with inappropriate behavior with their students. None of them represent the Buddha's teaching or the aspect of basic goodness. It is up to the student to be very careful in selecting someone to get advice from and that usually means a long period of observing the person whom you attach yourself to in many different situations. Crazy wisdom is basically bullshit, a very clever ruse used by those who still exploit others. Can we see any crazy wisdom behavior in the Buddha?

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binocular
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:59 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
Now I do not how to take it.
It seems there could be a much more fundamental issue there that needs to be resolved; namely, how to be selective in religious/spiritual matters, and esp. how to justify such selectiveness.
This is not such a no-brainer as some of you might think.

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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:38 pm

crazy wisdom is mostly crazy with very little wisdom IMHO
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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dhammastudent
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by dhammastudent » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:33 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 pm
I was very excited to listen to the following monk on his Dhamma talk about depression.
Then I further search for his talk and bump into a sex scandal about him.
Now I do not how to take it.




http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... lE7C9-WbV8
Lama Choedak is not a monk and belong to the Sakya tradition (tibetan). He was married and has one or two children. He clearly doesn’t belong to the Theravada tradition.
"Monks, be islands unto yourselves, be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other. Those who are islands unto themselves... should investigate to the very heart of things: 'What is the source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair? How do they arise?' " SN 22.43

Meezer77
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by Meezer77 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:30 pm

I think you find in a lot of these cases the person is eventually held to account. Takes a while, for instance look at Sogyal Rinpoche. Because some of these people become so high powered and celebrity like they think that the standards that apply to the rest of us don't to them

ieee23
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by ieee23 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:01 pm

My opinion is that if a monk/teacher can not behave better than I do, then s/he does not have much to teach me.

Bad behaviour is reflective of inner conflict and poor inner development. I want to learn inner peace and inner development so it would be a waste of my time to give spend time on a teacher who has not learned those things either.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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manas
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by manas » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:37 pm

Meezer77 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:30 pm
I think you find in a lot of these cases the person is eventually held to account. Takes a while, for instance look at Sogyal Rinpoche. Because some of these people become so high powered and celebrity like they think that the standards that apply to the rest of us don't to them
I don't understand how they are not afraid to do such things. Breaking the precept against not engaging in sexual misconduct, while being a respected teacher, receiving alms based on that respect?
307. There are many evil characters and uncontrolled men wearing the saffron robe. These wicked men will be born in states of woe because of their evil deeds.

308. It would be better to swallow a red-hot iron ball, blazing like fire, than as an immoral and uncontrolled monk to eat the alms of the people.
However, I don't know what the rules regarding sexual behaviour are, for Lamas and Rinpoches, but somehow I expected that sleeping with female disciples would be forbidden, and grounds for their title being removed, at least??
Last edited by manas on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

Meezer77
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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by Meezer77 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:00 pm

Don't they believe in rebirth according to kamma?
Maybe, maybe not. It's not just in Buddhism that you see this kind of thing, all religions have had scandals involving some of their leaders. Absolute power corrupts. I'm still optimistic that good monks and nuns exist though. Consensual sex is forgivable IMO, but in Sogyal's case there was coercion and assault and battery involved. It shouldn't be so surprising, you get bad people in all walks of life. Samsara

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Re: How to deal with a monk who's reputation is tarnish by a sexual scandl?

Post by cappuccino » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:51 am

Sex is the most difficult desire, for everyone.

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