Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:16 amThen all of Sri Lanka is wrong, because Sri lankans call all monks Bhante, even when I was a Samanera I was being called Bhante.
Buddhism is only a recent phenomena in Sri Lanka, which required reinstatement by the Burmese Sangha.
The Buddha set down before his death that any monastic who is senior to you you call Bhante, not just a very senior monastic.
Please quote, thanks. Regardless, the issue raised on this thread was laypeople calling junior monks Bhante.
Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:15 pmAs for my preceptor, he is fully aware of everything I do online, as I show him and he is also online to see. He has always been a visionary when it comes to technologies ability to share the dhamma, The internet was very important to my own Buddhist spiritual practice, and likewise for many others.
Sure. But this does not change my disconcertedness towards your preceptor. I have seen it myself before, with Asian preceptors pushing young Western monks to teach Buddhism to Westerners; with those monks eventually disrobing. The priority seems to be evangelizing Buddhism rather than developing the monks. At Wat Pananachat, I heard it is 5 or 10 years before a monks has public responsibilities.
Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:15 pmare you trying to say that someone who follows the noble eightfold path has already become free of sensuality.. because thats downright silly, the noble eightfold path IS the path leading to the cessation of dukkha, and craving, the path is FOR that purpose and everyone who starts down that path is not someone who has become dispassionate towards sensuality, and also there are levels of such dispassion, it is a gradual process.
I meant to say
mostly dispassionate or disenchanted towards sensuality. I just don't see how a mind /person infatuated with sensuality will benefit from trying practise the path. For example, Gotama, Sariputta & these people were already disenchanted with sensuality before they left the household life.
Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:15 pm my preceptor, Bhante G, has had most of the people he ordained disrobe as well. In a very austere dhamayut thai forest place near me, I watched a person jump from anagarika to full bhikkhu ( when I first met him he was anagarika and I was samanera, then 7 months later he was Bhikkhu and I was still samanera) and then months later I found out he disrobed and left. I would be careful before rushing to judgment.
In Asia, ordaining is similar to the old Catholicism, where generally at least one son from a family would ordain. These Asian societies were/are traditional societies following traditional family values, where monks played a certain pastoral social role. Personally, I am not sure the same model is appropriate for Western Buddhism because Western Buddhism does not primarily support traditional family values but is more servicing hungry ghosts therefore the moral-authority-by-numbers-model of Asian Buddhism appears somewhat alien to the West; at least to me.
Also, to repeat, I was ethically troubled by Ajahn Jag's disrobing considering he was fund raising prior to it.
Goofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:29 pm
That's just typical out of touch idealism.
In SE Asia temporary ordination is common. In the lineage that James ordained in it's common for a candidate to make a 5 year commitment, James exceeded that and exceeded what most Thai monks would do as ordinations would more typically range from 2 days to 3 months. It's not a betrayal it's a noble effort.
While it can be disappointing when senior teachers disrobe anyone who is putting their faith in a person (whether a monk, or teacher or not) obviously doesn't have much faith in the dhamma.
It may be idealism but the fact the Western monks are expected to ordain for 5 years appears to be a reflection of this very same idealism and is what distinguishes the Western ideal from the traditional Asian model I mentioned above.