List of rules for monks relevant for lay women

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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binocular
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List of rules for monks relevant for lay women

Post by binocular » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:35 am

Greetings.


Inspired by this recent post --
Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:00 am
‘If a monk gives a teaching of more than five or six sentences to a woman, he commits an offense entailing confession.’”
I would like this thread to be a readily available collection of those rules for monks that are relevant for women. That is, the list of those rules for monks that is best that lay women know before they have any communication with monks.

I think women knowing those rules would help to clarify some awkward situations in communication with monks, and prevent further such situations.


Thank you for your contributions.

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mikenz66
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Re: List of rules for monks relevant for lay women

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:53 pm

It would be good to link to the full text, and read the whole passage: https://suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-bu-vb-pc7
Final ruling

13 ‘If a monk gives a teaching of more than five or six sentences to a woman, except in the presence of a man who understands, he commits an offense entailing confession.’”

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Dhammanando
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Re: List of rules for monks relevant for lay women

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:19 am

Below is a list of all of the rules in the Pāṭimokkha (though not all of the rules in the whole of the Vinaya) that are in some way connected with women. I’ve omitted those that concern only bhikkhunīs, female wanderers or queens.

Pārājika: Rules entailing expulsion from the Sangha (Defeat)

1. Should any bhikkhu — participating in the training and livelihood of the bhikkhus, without having renounced the training, without having declared his weakness — engage in sexual intercourse, even with a female animal, he is defeated and no longer in affiliation.

3. Should any bhikkhu intentionally deprive a human being of life, or search for an assassin for him, or praise the advantages of death, or incite him to die (saying,): "My good man, what use is this evil, miserable life to you? Death would be better for you than life," or with such an idea in mind, such a purpose in mind, should in various ways praise the advantages of death or incite him to die, he also is defeated and no longer in affiliation.
[The Vinaya's extended treatment of this rule includes a prohibition against performing abortions or advising a woman to have one]

Saṅghādisesa: Rules entailing an initial and subsequent meeting of the Sangha

2. Should any bhikkhu, overcome by lust, with altered mind, engage in bodily contact with a woman, or in holding her hand, holding a lock of her hair, or caressing any of her limbs, it entails initial and subsequent meetings of the Community.

3. Should any bhikkhu, overcome by lust, with altered mind, address lewd words to a woman in the manner of young men to a young woman alluding to sexual intercourse, it entails initial and subsequent meetings of the Community.

4. Should any bhikkhu, overcome by lust, with altered mind, speak in the presence of a woman in praise of ministering to his own sensuality thus: "This, sister, is the foremost ministration, that of ministering to a virtuous, fine-natured follower of the celibate life such as myself with this act" — alluding to sexual intercourse — it entails initial and subsequent meetings of the Community.

5. Should any bhikkhu engage in conveying a man's intentions to a woman or a woman's intentions to a man, proposing marriage or paramourage — even if only for a momentary liaison — it entails initial and subsequent meetings of the Community.

Aniyata: Indefinite rules

1. Should any bhikkhu sit in private, alone with a woman on a seat secluded enough to lend itself (to sexual intercourse), so that a female lay follower whose word can be trusted, having seen (them), might describe it as constituting any of three cases — entailing defeat, communal meetings, or confession — then the bhikkhu, acknowledging having sat (there), may be dealt with in line with any of the three cases — entailing defeat, communal meetings, or confession — or he may be dealt with for whichever case the female lay follower whose word can be trusted described. This case is indefinite.

2. In case a seat is not sufficiently secluded to lend itself (to sexual intercourse) but sufficiently so to address lewd words to a woman, should any bhikkhu sit in private, alone with a woman on such a seat, so that a female lay follower whose word can be trusted, having seen (them), might describe it as constituting either of two cases — entailing communal meetings or confession — then the bhikkhu, acknowledging having sat (there), may be dealt with in line with either of the two cases — entailing communal meetings or confession — or he is to be dealt with in line with whichever case the female lay follower whose word can be trusted described. This case too is indefinite.

Pācittiya: Rules entailing confession

6. Should any bhikkhu lie down together (in the same dwelling) with a woman, it is to be confessed.

7. Should any bhikkhu teach more than five or six sentences of Dhamma to a woman, unless a knowledgeable man is present, it is to be confessed.

44. Should any bhikkhu sit in private on a secluded seat with a woman, it is to be confessed.

45. Should any bhikkhu sit in private, alone with a woman, it is to be confessed.

67. Should any bhikkhu, by arrangement, travel together with a woman, even for the interval between one village and the next, it is to be confessed.

binocular
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Re: List of rules for monks relevant for lay women

Post by binocular » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:38 pm

Thank you for the list.
I wish I knew that earlier, it would save me a lot of grief.

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