Ordination in Thailand

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Shodo Jishin
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Re: Ordination in Thailand

Post by Shodo Jishin » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:45 am

Thank you very much!

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Stiphan
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Re: Ordain as a monk and still stay vegetarian/vegan?

Post by Stiphan » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:37 am
I would remark, however, that abstention from meat can be practised at nearly any monastery in Thailand, excepting those of Ajahn Maha Bua and his disciples, where it's expressly prohibited.
This is good to hear since I am vegetarian and plan to go vegan. I had thought monks had to accept whatever was offered or put into their bowl?

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Dhammanando
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Re: Ordain as a monk and still stay vegetarian/vegan?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:53 pm

Stiphan wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 pm
This is good to hear since I am vegetarian and plan to go vegan. I had thought monks had to accept whatever was offered or put into their bowl?
One needs to distinguish between the requirements and prohibitions of Vinaya and those of popular custom.

The Vinaya prohibits a bhikkhu's eating of anything that hasn't been offered to him. It doesn't, however, require him to accept everything that's offered. Nor does it require him to eat everything that he's accepted.

Popular Asian custom, on the other hand, deems it bad form for a bhikkhu to decline any lawful food offering. In some places it's also deemed courteous for a bhikkhu to eat anything he's accepted if the donors are watching him.

The confusion of custom with Vinaya often leads to the erroneous assertion that the Vinaya requires bhikkhus to accept and eat everything they're offered.

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Stiphan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand

Post by Stiphan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:34 pm

Thank you, Bhante Dhammanando. Good to see you! :anjali:

If one explains to the Asian donors that one is vegetarian/vegan, would they still consider it bad manners that one hasn't accepted part of their offering, would you say? One could politely refuse and explain the reasoning behind one's choice of abstaining from meat - that it is done out of compassion. I guess I just wonder whether I will have any difficulties being vegetarian/vegan if or when I ordain.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Ordination in Thailand

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:14 am

Stiphan wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:34 pm
If one explains to the Asian donors that one is vegetarian/vegan, would they still consider it bad manners that one hasn't accepted part of their offering, would you say?
It depends on the situation.

When walking on almsround, for example, it would be unspeakably bad-mannered to refuse a donor's food offering because you notice that it includes meat, or to stipulate what kind of food you're willing to accept. (The latter behaviour would also be skating close to a breach of the 39th pācittiya rule). But when you get back to the monastery you're not obliged to eat the meat item.

When laypeople invite you to their home for a meal, if they are acquaintances then they'll probably know of your dietetic habits and so there won't be any problem. If they're strangers, however, then the proper course for a vegetarian would be to accept what's offered but not eat the meat. Some laypeople will just offer the food and then leave the monks to eat in peace, so there won't be any problem. Others, however, have an annoying habit of hovering about the table and fussing over the monks, dropping suggestions that they should try this and that, or trying to cajole them into eating some special dish that they've gone to a lot of trouble to make. In this case you might occasionally get into awkward situations: "Oh, Phra Stiphan, what's wrong? You haven't even touched my spaghetti bolognese! I made it specially because they told me a phra farang would be coming."
Stiphan wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:34 pm
One could politely refuse and explain the reasoning behind one's choice of abstaining from meat - that it is done out of compassion.
I think it would be better to learn what karuṇā means and abandon the un-dhammic view that a bhikkhu is performing a "compassionate" act by his choosing to eat this food rather than that food.
Taking life, torture, mutilation too,
binding, stealing, telling lies, and fraud;
deceit, adultery, and studying crooked views:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.

Those people of desires and pleasures unrestrained,
greedy for tastes with impurity mixed in,
of nihilistic views, unstable, hard to train:
this is carrion-stench, not the eating of meat.

Etc., etc.

https://suttacentral.net/en/snp2.2

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Stiphan
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Re: Ordination in Thailand

Post by Stiphan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:54 am

Wow, thank you, Bhante! An eloquent and informative reply once again. I personally am confused now with regards to the merits of vegetarianism now that I've read this sutta, although if I make a further comment about vegetarianism, it would veer towards off-topic. Thank you again, though!

charitha
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Re: Ordination in Thailand

Post by charitha » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:18 pm

Is there any ordination self course opportunity in thailand?

Rune from Denmark
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Re: Ordination in Thailand

Post by Rune from Denmark » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:56 pm

Hello.

If one wishes to ordain in the dhammayut, and train with Ajahn Martin, How long time shall one stay in white Before ordination can take place? Of course it is an individual case, but how long time typically?

Kind regards
Rune :-)

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