How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:25 am

Monks are prohibited to give their alms food to beggars afaik
Yes I can recall this.
Is this the right practice?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:29 am

If your temple becomes a homeless shelter and you don't like it, take the wilderness for a temple. It was good enough for the Buddha.
:bow:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:33 am

BasementBuddhist wrote: I would rather meditate in a homeless shelter, among unenlightened beings who laugh and ridicule the idea of the Dhamma, than sit in a temple while someone freezes outside.
I did not say he should be left to freeze outside, i said if he was to disrupting the Sangha causing disturbance, upsetting lay supporters and forcing monks to leave the monastery it would not surprise me if it was worse for him than freezing.

Frankly any beggar can ask to ordain or be an Anagarika or lay worker and i guess many people do this. There also monks who are forced to disrobe and why should they not be allowed to stay? They are homeless technically arent they?

I would personally just leave such monastery where this was an issue or if there were things interrupting my meditation practise and i think most monks would also just leave if they had to live with non Buddhists and especially if they were rediculing Dhamma. I would not be able to stand it personally because living with people holding wrong view is like living with a corpse.
Last edited by R1111 = rightviewftw on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by BasementBuddhist » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:38 am

R1111 wrote:
I did not say he should be left to freeze outside, i said if he was to disrupting the Sangha causing disturbance, upsetting lay supporters and forcing monks to leave the monastery it would not surprise me if it was worse for him than freezing.
Ah, I see what you meant now. My apologies for misreading your words. You do have what I consider to be a valid point. It is a tough question all around.

SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:57 am

I would not be able to stand it personally because living with people holding wrong view is like living with a corpse.
Perhaps we have to learn from Mother Teresa!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:05 am

Monks dont live with lay people. If there are no monks willing to live there then it is not a monastery. If it is not a monastery then this issue doesnt come up, lay supporters lose the opportunity to support and learn from monks and homeless beggars are still homeless because they dont own the property and the landlord would likely have a say in this at this point.

Afaik Vinaya also has few things to say on living with lay people.
SarathW wrote: I see lot of homeless people in the street.
I feel helpless as I can't help all of them.
I see where you are coming from and this comes up for me as well. I tend to help those who are close to me and appreciate the opportunity to practise giving in general, however i cant help everybody and i feel bad when i dont share all i have, including requisites and when i spend money on stuff i dont need like extra good food ie. Also if we feel bad about not helping people in front of us, not helping poor people far away is no diffrent, there is no justification for not living at absolute minimum and donating rest of one's resources to others be it monastics or the poor of the world.
The only comperhensive solution i know of is giving up money and becoming a renunciate, helping the world by giving Dhamma to people.
Last edited by R1111 = rightviewftw on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by DNS » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:36 am

SarathW wrote: I see lot of homeless people in the street.
I feel helpless as I can't help all of them.
I just wonder what I would do if a homeless person come to my house even though I never had that problem.
And therein lies the problem. If you let one homeless person into your home to stay, word might get out and more would come and then more homeless people in your home and eventually you might get kicked out and be homeless. If a monastery did that they would end up not being a monastery any more and rather a homeless shelter. There is nothing wrong with homeless shelters and there is nothing wrong with opening your own home to the homeless, if you wish. And I'm certain there is great merit in doing so. But understand the purpose would then be changed from your home to homeless shelter or from monastery to homeless shelter. As you (Sarath) mentioned, we can't help them all.

I think there can be some middle way of helping, by giving them food, clothing, directing them to shelters, welfare offices, etc.

I had an apartment building in Denver many years ago and one day it was almost a blizzard outside with well below freezing weather. As my wife and I entered the building one night, we had to step over a couple of homeless people sleeping in the lobby. They would have surely froze to death if we kicked them out. They were keeping warm in the lobby. We went up to our apartment and later a tenant called us complaining that we need to kick out the homeless people. We refused and the tenant moved out later in anger, but that's okay, we couldn't possibly have kicked them out on that freezing night.

SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:45 am

I think Ven. Bodhi realise this problem and created the Buddhist Global Relief.
I think every temple should have a Global Relief programme and allocate certain per cent of their fund for social activities.


https://www.buddhistglobalrelief.org/index.php/en/
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:50 am

I think monasteries are important, those who teach Dhamma teach giving and sharing to the lay Buddhists encouraging them in helping the poor.
So they actually do more for the poor of the world than merely being a homeless shelter, i dont even want to imagine what would happen if there were no monks at the monasteries.

SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:05 am

i dont even want to imagine what would happen if there were no monks at the monasteries.
As David said it is a middle way action. When I go to a Sri Lankan temple the only programme I see is the temple building programme.
Specially the millions of Rupees spent on concrete Buddha statues do not serve much purpose.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:26 am

Strictly speaking, giving does not appear in its own right among the factors of the Noble Eightfold Path, nor does it enter among the other requisites of enlightenment (bodhipakkhiya dhamma). Most probably it has been excluded from these groupings because the practice of giving does not by its own nature conduce directly and immediately to the arising of insight and the realization of the Four Noble Truths. Giving functions in the Buddhist discipline in a different capacity. It does not come at the apex of the path, as a factor constituent of the process of awakening, but rather it serves as a basis and preparation which underlies and quietly supports the entire endeavor to free the mind from the defilements.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el367.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by Anagarika » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:48 am

Part of compassion entails wisdom. As David mentioned, an abbot and a wat can be a resource center for people that arrive and need shelter and food. The abbot can determine if there are resources in the community such as family services, addiction services and shelters that are trained and equipped to take in homeless people. The goal is not to turn a wat into a homeless shelter, any more than a wat can end up being a hospital for injured people that might show up. But, with compassion and wisdom, the wat can be a temporary respite but a longer term resource center that can connect the homeless with services and shelter in the community.

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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:01 am

SarathW wrote:
Monks are prohibited to give their alms food to beggars afaik
Yes I can recall this.
Is this the right practice?
I've never heard of this. Where did the idea come from? In my experience, monks regularly give away (commonly give back) food to lay people.

:heart:
Mike

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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:02 am

Anagarika wrote: ... with compassion and wisdom, the wat can be a temporary respite but a longer term resource center that can connect the homeless with services and shelter in the community.
Sadhu...
:heart:
Mike

SarathW
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Re: How to handle a beggar want to stay in your temple?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:11 am

mikenz66 wrote:
SarathW wrote:
Monks are prohibited to give their alms food to beggars afaik
Yes I can recall this.
Is this the right practice?
I've never heard of this. Where did the idea come from? In my experience, monks regularly give away (commonly give back) food to lay people.

:heart:
Mike
I remember reading it somewhere. I will PM this if I come across this again.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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