markandeya wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 10:27 am
Yeah its not, banks are the biggest thieves and they are covered by insurance. In ancient lore leaving debts was forbidden because the debts were usually transferred to the family to pay off, and that would cause them suffering to pay it off,and thats not fair on family members, its different today.
Go to India and some of the sadhus there, they would probably laugh and make you tea if you ripped the western system off, and ask you if you have any spare change left
But do you best, there maybe ways to declare some kinda bankruptcy, if its over a long time and regular payments have been made its not theft, you probably took money which they offered and had all good intentions to pay but couldnt because you became broke, we cant see into the future. If its done fast over a short period then they might get suspicious and you could land in trouble.
so because you think someone is a thief... it justifies reneging on your responsibilities.. I see. I would agree with you only in one situation, that a gun was put to your head and you were forced to borrow money you knew you were going to have to pay back.
I find it interesting how much entitlement there is in this thread regarding debt and ordination. I still have about 7 more years before I can ordain anyone, so me having to take this into consideration is a bit of a ways off yet. but if someone comes to me wanting to ordain with the kinds of attitudes i'm seeing here, it would never happen. This is just not the right mindset to want to move towards ordination, and even if you think it wouldn't affect you now, I suspect eventually it would be heavy on your conscious if your practice progresses and even the more subtle actions become important.
Ordination is not a right, there are a variety of things that bar people from being able to ordain, not all of it may seem "fair" in modern society, but life itself is not fair. And as Bhante/Ajahn stated before, it may still be a "legal" ordination , with the preceptor taking an infraction, but i would say, is that how you would want to begin your monastic life?
If you are young and the debt seems overwhelming, I can understand, but if you set yourself a goal of ordination and are serious around it, that will drive you to live in such a way so that your debt is slowly attenuated. Maybe you then realize you didn't really want to ordain, but were dreaming of some kind of escape, or maybe you don't ordain until you are in your 30s like me, but you can do so with a clear conscious, knowing there is not even a small thing that can hold you back.