Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
It appears stream entry is so common among monks.
Even if the monk is ordained if s/he is not a stream enterer he considered a run-of-the-mill person.
Is this what meant by the following Sutta?
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On one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Sakyans near Kapilavatthu in Nigrodha's Park. Then Nandiya the Sakyan went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Lord, the disciple of the noble ones in whom the factors of stream entry are altogether & in every way lacking: Is he called a disciple of the noble ones who lives heedlessly?"
"Nandiya, the person in whom the factors of stream entry are altogether & in every way lacking I call an outsider, one who stands in the faction of the run-of-the-mill. But as to how a disciple of the noble ones lives heedlessly and heedfully, listen well and pay attention, I will speak"
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
I think this Sutta is wrongly translated by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 0-piya.pdf
Check out this paper.
fwiw i am inclined to think that this Sutta is litterally about an Ariya savaka
http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 0-piya.pdf
Check out this paper.
fwiw i am inclined to think that this Sutta is litterally about an Ariya savaka
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- Posts: 1019
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Re: Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
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Last edited by User156079 on Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
My personal opinion of the Sutta is that if Limbs of Stream-Entry are never completely absent in a Sotapanna but he can become content with erified confidence and give himself over to negligence, indulging in sensuality, thus abandoning the goal. At that time is he dwelling heedlessly he does not attain fruition or rapture from jhana, thus dwelling in pain.
Last edited by User156079 on Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
Thank you R111User156079 wrote:I think this Sutta is wrongly translated by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 0-piya.pdf
Check out this paper.
fwiw i am inclined to think that this Sutta is litterally about an Ariya savaka
It is a very detailed essay.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Is a mnonk who is not Sotapanna considered an outsider?
This sutta is referring to the relatively late definition of the factors conducive to stream-entry, and not to stream-entry itself.