Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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dylanj
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Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by dylanj » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:46 am

Hello. I have been a Buddhist for 3 years. I have been intent on (eventually) since this past February. As of a couple months ago I have committed to Theravāda Buddhism, through my amazement with and faith in the Thai Forest Tradition, esp. Ajahn Mun. I recently read his biography, written by Ajahn Mahā Bua. I am very, very intent on pursuing his style of practice.

Initially my intention was to practice & ordain in his lineage but after reading parts of a book on the history of the Thai Forest Tradition & discovering that the forest wandering style of practice has nearly, if not wholly, died out in Thailand due to deforestation I am very discouraged...I feel if his lineage is not able to employ his style of practice given modern conditions then it would be better to prioritize pursuing his style of practice rather than lineage, even if that means joining a completely different lineage of Theravāda Buddhism.

I am aware of the many western monasteries in this lineage. I am not interested in them. I have great respect for them & their abbots but by my understanding they fail to fully immerse themselves in deep, secluded wilderness in a manner which provokes the sort of fear that was so integral to the early Thai Forest Tradition.

So does anyone have advice? If you wanted to practice as a wandering forest monk who were to undertake the dhutanga practices & largely live in solitude where would you go? Who would you practice under? Is there any genuine potential for this sort of practice to be undertaken in modern Thailand? Burma? Laos? Vietnam? Sri Lanka? China, even? Where can I practice Theravāda Buddhism in a manner that lives up to what Ajahn Mun taught his disciples?
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:46 am

maranadhammomhi wrote:So does anyone have advice? If you wanted to practice as a wandering forest monk who were to undertake the dhutanga practices & largely live in solitude where would you go?
I think Ajahn Mun's path would be best replicated in the present time by ordaining and getting one's formative training in a Thai Dhammayutt forest wat and then (after five years or so) moving to Sri Lanka and following in Ñāṇavimala's footsteps.
On retreat and offline May 22 - July 10.

„Sedem solitariam, cubitum solitarium
solitarius colens non segnis,
solitarius semet ipse domans
in sylva extrema delectatus sit.“

(Dhammapada 305. tr. Viggo Fausbøll. 1855)

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dylanj
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by dylanj » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:20 am

Dhammanando wrote: I think Ajahn Mun's path would be best replicated in the present time by ordaining and getting one's formative training in a Thai Dhammayutt forest wat and then (after five years or so) moving to Sri Lanka and following in Ñāṇavimala's footsteps.

Thank you, Bhante. I will keep this recommendation in mind, & thank you for sharing the article.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

SarathW
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by SarathW » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:43 am

Very interesting story Bhante.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Goofaholix
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by Goofaholix » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:20 am

The dhutangas are still practiced in the Thai forest tradition, though not to the extent of the middle of the last century but I think there are opportunities to live rough and get out of your comfort zone if you want it or need it. In the thai forest monasteries I've stayed in there always seemed to be monks practicing one or two dhutangas, or leaving or returning from tudong or retreat in remote places.

The first step is to ordain, once you've trained with your teacher for 5 years then you are free to go and live where you want, there won't be so many opportunites to sleep on paths frequented by tigers but caves frequented by snakes and suchlike is a possibility.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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Dhammanando
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:34 am

SarathW wrote:Very interesting story Bhante.
I see that there's now a whole website devoted to the late thera:

http://ven-nyanavimala.buddhasasana.net/
On retreat and offline May 22 - July 10.

„Sedem solitariam, cubitum solitarium
solitarius colens non segnis,
solitarius semet ipse domans
in sylva extrema delectatus sit.“

(Dhammapada 305. tr. Viggo Fausbøll. 1855)

upekha
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by upekha » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:10 am

I had the good fortune of meeting this Venerable Thero twice and offering Dana. His student Venerable Nanaloka thero now goes on Charika . I saw him a few years ago, just about to leave on Charika, he was barefooted and not even carrying an umbrella. He only had his Bowl . It was very inspiring to see a Buddha Puthra following the way of the elders in the times of the Buddha.

With metta

upekha
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by upekha » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:36 am

I visited a forest Monastery in Sri Lanka last Sunday. The monks don't go on Charika but do live in the forests. Each Kuti is about 5 km away from the other. You can read about it here.

http://bhaddekavihari.org/about

The Chief monk will be in Perth for three weeks . He will be residing at Ajahn Brahms' monastery.

With metta

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robertk
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by robertk » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:14 am

Dhammanando wrote:
SarathW wrote:Very interesting story Bhante.
I see that there's now a whole website devoted to the late thera:

http://ven-nyanavimala.buddhasasana.net/
Fascinating . Thanks for that.

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Mkoll
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by Mkoll » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:17 am

robertk wrote:
Dhammanando wrote:
SarathW wrote:Very interesting story Bhante.
I see that there's now a whole website devoted to the late thera:

http://ven-nyanavimala.buddhasasana.net/
Fascinating . Thanks for that.
Indeed. :thanks:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Seymour
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by Seymour » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:16 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:46 am
maranadhammomhi wrote:So does anyone have advice? If you wanted to practice as a wandering forest monk who were to undertake the dhutanga practices & largely live in solitude where would you go?
I think Ajahn Mun's path would be best replicated in the present time by ordaining and getting one's formative training in a Thai Dhammayutt forest wat and then (after five years or so) moving to Sri Lanka and following in Ñāṇavimala's footsteps.
I followed the link on this post, I'm pretty positive my teacher in the U.S met & studied with Bhante Guttasīla when he lived at Wat Bowon. Eventually they went to another temple and took Thudong. He will be happy to know that he is still around.
Simple living high thinking.

Seymour
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by Seymour » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:45 pm

:bow:
Seymour wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:16 pm
Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:46 am
maranadhammomhi wrote:So does anyone have advice? If you wanted to practice as a wandering forest monk who were to undertake the dhutanga practices & largely live in solitude where would you go?
I think Ajahn Mun's path would be best replicated in the present time by ordaining and getting one's formative training in a Thai Dhammayutt forest wat and then (after five years or so) moving to Sri Lanka and following in Ñāṇavimala's footsteps.
I followed the link on this post, I'm pretty positive my teacher in the U.S met & studied with Bhante Guttasīla when he lived at Wat Bowon. Eventually they went to another temple and took Thudong. He will be happy to know that he is still around.
Or at least that he was still around in 2012? and in robes. :bow:
Simple living high thinking.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:02 pm

What is keeping people from practicing in this way, what has changed since Ajahn Mun's time?
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Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Seeking advice on the best way to apply Ajahn Mun's dhutanga kammaṭṭhāna practice in modern times

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:24 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:02 pm
What is keeping people from practicing in this way, what has changed since Ajahn Mun's time?
Mainly the forests were cut down. There are now very few forested areas in Thailand, and no wildlife. The jungle was cleared for farming, and the wild animals were all eaten or hunted out.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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